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Author Topic:   Lying For Jesus Award
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 117 of 279 (381139)
01-29-2007 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by riVeRraT
01-24-2007 6:06 AM


Re: Who represents who?
RR writes:
Personally, I am sick of the word Christian. I don't believe that anyone is actual Christian, except Christ.
FYI, our brothers and sisters of the NT were called Christians, so I consider it a great honor as they did to be called Christian. See Acts 11:26, Acts 26:28 and I Peter 4:16

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by riVeRraT, posted 01-24-2007 6:06 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by riVeRraT, posted 01-30-2007 10:01 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 279 (381142)
01-29-2007 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by nator
01-29-2007 12:04 PM


Re: Who represents who?
nator writes:
So, when 50 Christian leaders from 50 different denominations see Jerry Falwell on the television and have strong feelings against what he is saying in the name of all Christians, what is preventing them from loudly and publicly denouning him?
Falwell, like all Christians speaks his mind in his own name. He does not claim to represent all Christians. Much of what he says does set well with most Biblical fundamentalists, however. I take issue with some of his stuff, but don't see anything deserving of strong feelings against him for what he believes and teaches. Many have been educated, helped and blessed by the man's life work and legacy.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by nator, posted 01-29-2007 12:04 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by nator, posted 01-30-2007 8:03 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 119 of 279 (381144)
01-29-2007 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by nator
01-29-2007 12:04 PM


Re: Who represents who?
nator writes:
So, when 50 Christian leaders from 50 different denominations see Jerry Falwell on the television and have strong feelings against what he is saying in the name of all Christians, what is preventing them from loudly and publicly denouning him?
Falwell, like all Christians speaks his mind in his own name. He does not claim to represent all Christians. Much of what he says does set well with most Biblical fundamentalists, however. I take issue with some of his stuff, but don't see anything deserving of strong feelings against him for what he believes and teaches. Many have been educated, helped and blessed by the man's life work and legacy.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by nator, posted 01-29-2007 12:04 PM nator has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 141 of 279 (381612)
01-31-2007 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Percy
01-31-2007 10:14 AM


Re: Falwell Lies For Jesus?
Percy writes:
Falwell is lying for Jesus.
1. Perhaps if you would cite Falwell's lies some of us who are unaware of them could confront him with them.
2. I see this thread as your classic fundamentalist Christian bashing fora. All ideologies have their good folks and some not so good. Why is it that it is the fundi Christians who are so often bashed as if it was them who downed the Twin Towers, strapped bombs to themselves to kill hundres of innocents, enslave and oppress minority religions, killed a hundred million of their own last century, Attacked Pearl Harbor, killed 6 mil Jews, killed, tortured and oppressed during the Dark Ages, et al, al?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Percy, posted 01-31-2007 10:14 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by crashfrog, posted 02-01-2007 2:03 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 151 by Percy, posted 02-01-2007 4:34 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 152 of 279 (381723)
02-01-2007 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Percy
02-01-2007 4:34 PM


Re: Falwell Lies For Jesus?
I'd much rather be called a slimeball than a liar. Imo, liar is a charge that should be backed up by the evidence given that it is charging one of deliberately stating a falsehood when one knows and believes it's a falsehood. Slimeball, on the other hand is a relative word as to ideology. I don't see him as a slimeball at all though there's stuff I take issue on regarding his position on some things. I respect your viewpoint regarding others. However when someone I regard as honorable is labeled a liar, I'd want to confront that person so as to allow for a defense of the serious charge.
I regard Jesse Jackson as a slimeball of sorts who exploits blacks but would not call him on a lie unless I had the goods. Thanks for clarification.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Percy, posted 02-01-2007 4:34 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by jar, posted 02-01-2007 8:30 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 162 by Percy, posted 02-01-2007 10:00 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 172 of 279 (381798)
02-01-2007 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by jar
02-01-2007 8:30 PM


Re: Falwell Lies For Jesus?
You can't prove that any of these were intentional or willful lies. "Judge and you shall not be judged" is the Jesus way. We fundies get accused of judging others. This shows that folks of all viewpoints point the finger of judgement when in fact they can't prove whether an honest mistake or a willful lie. I don't think Falwell would willfuly lie about Flint. I don't know whether the SD press got their story right for sure either so I choose to give the benefit of the doubt just as I would with you or anyone else before making spurilous judgements.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by jar, posted 02-01-2007 8:30 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by jar, posted 02-01-2007 11:03 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 175 of 279 (381803)
02-01-2007 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Percy
02-01-2007 10:00 PM


Re: Falwell Lies For Jesus?
All I can say my friend is that I hope folks allow you more leeway than you are allowing this good man when it comes to charges of lying when imo it would be more Christian to simply put it that you are in disagreement with his positions or that he could be mistaken in good faith. So many totally discount all the good that people like this man has done in things like making more productive and morally sound citizens out of young folks, renewing the wayward and supporting the oppressed around the world, providing a retirement haven for seniors et al. I say let God be the judge when all's said and done unless some very egregious crime or immoral act has been commited bringing shame on Christ and the Christian community of Liberty University. We all have faults, make mistakes and have widespread disagreements on views. Anyhow, 'nuf said. I've likely missed your point again which I've not quite figured if it wasn't that Falwell is allegedly a blatant liar for Jesus.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Percy, posted 02-01-2007 10:00 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Percy, posted 02-02-2007 11:45 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 178 of 279 (381845)
02-02-2007 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by Phat
02-02-2007 8:45 AM


Re: Falwell's Truth Hurts Why?
I see it this way:
Science method: Here is the hypothesis: Let's see if we can dig up enough facts to declare it a scientific theory.
Creationist method: Here is the hypothesis: Let's see if we can dig up enough facts to lend credibility to it, being fully aware that no matter how much we dig up the scientific community will debunk it. CREATIONISTS ARE LIARS, PARTICULARLY THE BIBLICAL FUNDAMENTALISTS!

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Phat, posted 02-02-2007 8:45 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by nator, posted 02-05-2007 12:18 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 266 by jar, posted 02-05-2007 10:27 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 193 of 279 (381992)
02-02-2007 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Percy
02-02-2007 11:45 AM


Re: Falwell Lies For Jesus?
Percy writes:
You chastise us for rendering judgement on Falwell, yet you give Falwell a free pass for his expressions of hate and intolerance, for example his connection of 9/11 with secularists, gays, etc.?
If you go back I asked that you apprise us as to what lies Falwell was telling. I'm still waiting for the specifics on that. I'm not aware of hatefulness from him. As for intolerance, he threatens no one that I know of for their views or lifestyles. He, like the rest of us, work to get legislation passed for whatever we may be advocating. He preaches the Biblical principles regarding sex et al. Is that bad for a Biblical preacher?
9/ll/secularists/gays? I'm not aware of that. What's up there?
As I said you still have failed to identify the specific lies. As to the rest, until you specify what hate and unwaranted intolerance, I reserve judgement.
Percy writes:
Why do you wish to yield Falwell the right to sit in judgement of others and not hold him to the Biblical prescription to "judge not that ye be not judged." You're sanctioning the behavior of people who place themselves above the Bible simply because they claim to be speaking for the Lord.
1. If you specify where he's placing himself above the Bible, I'd like to address that.
2. Teaching and preaching Biblical principles is what preachers are suppose to do. If you see that as judging where do yo draw the line between judging and admonishing/teaching?
Percy writes:
It isn't just Falwell. You're already on record as defending Hovind for tax evasion.
If you go back and read me, you'll see that I was reserving judgement until it is established that he was indeed breaking the law since many have gotten by for decades using loopholes etc. I remained neutral as to judgement until the verdict was out. It appears that he ran out of loopholes and deserves some punishment. I'm not sure about 10 years without parole, if that's what he got. That seems quite harsh.
Percy writes:
Do you also defend Oral Roberts, his most extravagant misbehavior occurring when he declared that God would "call him home" if he didn't raise $8 million dollars?
You likely either forgot or missed it. I've gone on record as veheminently condemning this outrageous and egregious conduct. I've never lent any support to this con artist.
Percy writes:
Do you also defend Jimmy Swaggert and his hypocrisy in preaching morality from the pulpit while trolling for prostitutes from his limo. Do you also defend Jim Bakker for defrauding his parishioners by selling over 100% shares in his Christian vacation resort?
Of course not. You sure do have a low estimate of the ole man, my friend. It's a bit disheartening to see that I've given you that low estimation of my moral standards. I would have assumed you would know the answers to such questions from positions I've taken at EvC on morality and such.
Percy writes:
Do you also defend the shameless "faith healing for money" of Leroy Jenkins and Benny Hinn? Do you also defend the "pray for wealth" scam of Robert Tilton?
God has healed me by anointing by local church elders as per James 5:14 but have always taken the position that the methodology of these kind of faith healers is not Biblical. No, I don't defend them. So far as asking money for legitimate air time, it depends on how it is used and whether the work is honoring to God and his word.
Percy writes:
I ask why fundamentalists give a free pass to misbehaving fundamentalists, and you respond with a plea for giving a free pass to fundamentalists. Buz, do you recognize the irony of offering rebuttals that are actually examples of the very behavior you're trying to rebut?
That's certainly not a lie, Percy but it's very false in that you paint me as allowing free pass across the board to fundies, including the bad guys. Now, you're turning on me in judgement. I certainly hope in the judgement, God will allow you more leeway than you're willing to allow Biblical fundies. You and your friends here act as though a few bad guys are representative of the millions of Biblical fundies including myself who love God and honor his word.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Percy, posted 02-02-2007 11:45 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Percy, posted 02-03-2007 11:19 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 196 of 279 (382005)
02-02-2007 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by anglagard
02-02-2007 7:49 PM


Who the Fundies will come after first -- NOBODY!
anglagard writes:
This may not be a comforting thought, but if history is any guide, including the history of this forum, you are very likely to be correct in this observation.
What fundamentalists consider 'heretics' seem to always be considered a greater threat than any external religion. Look at all those witchburnings and the Catholic vs Protestant warfare that took place while the Ottomans besieged Vienna.
I guess people like myself who adhere to the numerically smaller 'outsider' beliefs will be second. Larger competing religions will be third, then Athiests, Catholics, other Protestants, then finally each other.
Some of you people are soooo deluded! When are you going to get it in your thick heads what true Biblical fundies teach, believe and do? We do, teach, think and believe what Jesus and the apostles did, taught, thought and believed, that you do violence to no man, even to the point that you suffer for your testinony, your faith and your Lord Jesus Christ.
The violence folks are the non-Biblical fundies, i.e. the Muslims, murdering millions in our day right now, the Buddhists fundies (Burma for example) who imprison, kill and severely persecute Christians, the secularist commie fundies who murderdered over a hundred millions last century, the dark age Catholic popes and bishops who murdered and persecuted scores of thousands in the inquisitions, the Indian Hindus who imprison and persecute the Christians of India et al. And guess who the primary victims of all these violent ideologies are: It's the Biblical fundie Christians. THEY ARE THE VICTIMS, FOLKS, NOT THE KILLERS AND PERSECUTORS!
Btw: Who is it that gives, sacrifices, risks their lives for and loves the persecuted and the oppressed whom the non-Biblical fundies persecute and oppress? IT'S THE FUNDIE CHRISTIANS LIKE VOM (VOICE OF THE MARTYRS), WORLD VISION, HOPEGIVERS INTERNATIONAL, FRANKLIN GRAHAM'S SAMARITAN'S PURSE, JERRY FALWELL'S BENEVOLENT OUTREACH PROGRAMS, ET AL, ET AL, ET AL..............

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by anglagard, posted 02-02-2007 7:49 PM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by jar, posted 02-02-2007 8:50 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 234 by anglagard, posted 02-03-2007 5:37 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 197 of 279 (382008)
02-02-2007 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Fosdick
02-02-2007 7:55 PM


Re: Who the Fundies will come after first
I don't often agree with you, Hoot Mon, but I gotta love you! Whether or not I agree, I make an effort to read your stuff. As in much of what you post, this one is well put and makes good sense.
Btw, cool avitar. Somehow it fits your posting style.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Fosdick, posted 02-02-2007 7:55 PM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Fosdick, posted 02-03-2007 12:27 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 199 of 279 (382010)
02-02-2007 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Quetzal
02-02-2007 6:21 PM


Re: Who the Fundies will come after first
Relax. You're not a Biblical fundie kind of Christian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Quetzal, posted 02-02-2007 6:21 PM Quetzal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Quetzal, posted 02-03-2007 10:39 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 200 of 279 (382011)
02-02-2007 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by jar
02-02-2007 8:50 PM


Re: Who the Fundies will come after first
Document and we'll talk.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by jar, posted 02-02-2007 8:50 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by jar, posted 02-02-2007 8:57 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 203 of 279 (382019)
02-02-2007 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by jar
02-02-2007 8:57 PM


Re: Who the Fundies will come after first
jar writes:
I will try to find it but it was iano. Typical reaction form a Biblical Christian.
Oh, so it's big bad Iano who has your knees knocking. Yes, Iano........I forgot about that BRUTAL FUNDIE WHO HAS EVC NONBIBLICALFUNDIES SOOO TERRIFIED!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by jar, posted 02-02-2007 8:57 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by jar, posted 02-02-2007 9:31 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 206 of 279 (382026)
02-02-2007 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by jar
02-02-2007 9:31 PM


Re: Who the Fundies will come after first
Specifically what violence do Falwell, Robertson and BIG BAD Iano promote? Where's your documentation?
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by jar, posted 02-02-2007 9:31 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by jar, posted 02-02-2007 10:04 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
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