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Author Topic:   Did the sky really go dark as biblical inerrantists insist?
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2765 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 65 of 113 (382615)
02-05-2007 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
08-11-2006 7:03 AM


Faulty Premise
Hello nator,
I hope you are not tired of this discussion. I just ran across it and after reading it through I felt it could benefit from another point of view.
nator writes:
The following is a passage from the gospel of Luke:
23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
If this is to be taken at face value as a real event, then why do we not see any accounts by any other civilization of this happening?
We don't see accounts by any other civilizations because no other civilization observed it happening.
In fact it could have been extremely localized. Maybe even limited to the crucifixion ground. Maybe it was caused by thick black smoke rising from the dead bodies of crucifixion victims who were being disposed in the usual manner: thrown into the city dump {Gehenna} and set on fire. This could blot out the sun and darken the sky for hours.
It is not difficult to demonstrate that “all the earth” is an expression which refers NOT to our planet but rather to a more limited area of dry land. There is no compelling reason to assume that this darkness was noticeable outside Jerusalem County; and there is plentiful scriptural evidence to cast doubt on the notion that it was a global phenomenon.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 08-11-2006 7:03 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Mespo, posted 02-07-2007 4:05 PM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2765 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 68 of 113 (383298)
02-07-2007 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Mespo
02-07-2007 4:05 PM


Re: Please Enlighten Me
Mespo writes:
In all the discussions bantered about concerning the reality of the darkness over all the earth...
...would someone please tell me how it was determined that the darkness lasted from the 6th hour to the 9th hour, if the PRIMARY mode of telling time in that era was the sundial?
There were alternative methods of telling time. The Greeks had invented a water-clock long before this.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Mespo, posted 02-07-2007 4:05 PM Mespo has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2765 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 91 of 113 (387204)
02-27-2007 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Coragyps
02-16-2007 10:11 AM


Re: Land or World?
LinearAq writes:
What translation of the Bible are you using?
Coragyps writes:
Far more to the point, what does it say in the earliest Greek that we have? And is that even directly comparable to the Hebrew that's in the OT?
In a nutshell sir:
The Greek (ghee) is used pretty much the same as the Hebrew (erets); and neither was traditionally employed in what we imagine to be a 'global' sense. The Septuagint, (Greek language Bible) was produced by devout Jews not long after the heathen Greeks had proposed their godless theory regarding the spherical shape of things under heaven. Nowhere in the Hebrew text is there revealed a concept such as this: that land and sea are part and parcel of a greater whole called "Earth."
Genesis is very clear regarding the definition of "Earth," and Seas are not included.
(The opinion of Aristotle notwithstanding)
Some Background:
But the opinions of Aristotle were mighty important to the Church of Rome. Thus, when the Greek text was brought into Latin, an Aristotelian imagination colored the interpretation of it.
A much worse situation arose when the scripture was brought into English. Now, a single word of the original language, designed to depict the original theory, becomes several words in the target language. Where the translator didn't mind revealing the original scope, he could say "land." And where the scope was somewhat larger he could say "earth," and in so doing, call to mind the Aristotelian model of the universe. Even so, the full extent of earth's parameters remained a mystery; such that Columus discovered a "New World" where he expected to encounter India.
But even as the hugeness of the earth/sea/ball began to be appreciated, no one yet imagined that the ball might be rotating, much less orbiting the sun. (No one but the Muslim scholars who preserved volumes from the library at Alexandria).
At any rate: No Old Testament author espoused the notion of an Aristotelian 'earth' and it seems highly unlikely that Jesus' and his disciples would be promoting that hellenistic heresy.
Summary:
There is no reason to assume that the biblical word "earth" means planet earth. It is, in fact, for the most part, a simple reference to real estate: a piece of dry land. (Gen 1:10) The extent of that land must be determined from the context.
Edited by doctrbill, : To Tweak the Summary

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Coragyps, posted 02-16-2007 10:11 AM Coragyps has not replied

  
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