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Author Topic:   The Blasphemy Challenge
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5953 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 76 of 134 (382742)
02-05-2007 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by crashfrog
02-05-2007 9:12 PM


Crashfrog writes:
And you believe them? LOL!
Until you show me who you nominate as the originator of the rosary, I'm sticking with St Dominic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by crashfrog, posted 02-05-2007 9:12 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by crashfrog, posted 02-05-2007 9:22 PM anastasia has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 77 of 134 (382744)
02-05-2007 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by anastasia
02-05-2007 9:20 PM


No no, I'm not saying that it's not.
But honestly what's the difference between praying the rosary and the guy who's compelled to touch every parking meter as he walks down the street?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 9:20 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 9:35 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5953 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 78 of 134 (382746)
02-05-2007 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by crashfrog
02-05-2007 9:11 PM


Crashfrog writes:
Nonsense, and I already explained why this isn't true. Honestly I don't see the first thing in your post that's an actual response to what I wrote - just more of the insulting arrogance of the believer, who claims sole dominion over the best of man's achievements but no responsibility for its greatest evils.
I don't claim dominion over anything, Crashfrog. All that I am saying is that I love the history of my religion, the art, the music, the language, and that I would not choose to be without this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by crashfrog, posted 02-05-2007 9:11 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by crashfrog, posted 02-05-2007 9:47 PM anastasia has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5953 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 79 of 134 (382747)
02-05-2007 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by crashfrog
02-05-2007 9:22 PM


Crashfrog writes:
But honestly what's the difference between praying the rosary and the guy who's compelled to touch every parking meter as he walks down the street?
One is a devotion, one is an obsession.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by crashfrog, posted 02-05-2007 9:22 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5953 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 80 of 134 (382748)
02-05-2007 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by ringo
02-05-2007 9:19 PM


Ringo writes:
So you agree that god-sense is not natural? Do you also agree that it is learned?
Nope. Learning requires a teacher, and the teacher had to get the thought from somewhere. If we start out without god-sense, as a lower life form, we have nothing to teach.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 9:19 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 9:44 PM anastasia has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 81 of 134 (382749)
02-05-2007 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by anastasia
02-05-2007 9:40 PM


anastasia writes:
If we start out without god-sense, as a lower life form, we have nothing to teach.
That's why people who are not taught don't have a god-sense. That's also why some are able to unlearn it.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 9:40 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 10:56 PM ringo has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 82 of 134 (382750)
02-05-2007 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by anastasia
02-05-2007 9:31 PM


All that I am saying is that I love the history of my religion, the art, the music, the language, and that I would not choose to be without this.
For once you're not being arrogant. Can you accept that others can turn their backs on all that without ceasing to see the beauty in the world?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 9:31 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 10:52 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5953 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 83 of 134 (382761)
02-05-2007 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by crashfrog
02-05-2007 9:47 PM


Sure, there is no secret code to seeing beauty. I only remember so vividly a time when I thought that beauty was all there was. It was so much, and so little.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by crashfrog, posted 02-05-2007 9:47 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5953 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 84 of 134 (382762)
02-05-2007 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by ringo
02-05-2007 9:44 PM


Ringo writes:
That's why people who are not taught don't have a god-sense. That's also why some are able to unlearn it.
Doesn't explain where it comes from though, does it?
Unless, of course, the teacher is God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 9:44 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 11:02 PM anastasia has replied
 Message 97 by nator, posted 02-06-2007 8:52 AM anastasia has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 85 of 134 (382764)
02-05-2007 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by anastasia
02-05-2007 10:56 PM


anastasia writes:
Doesn't explain where it comes from though, does it?
Unless, of course, the teacher is God.
The teacher could be anybody.
The first teachers were shamans who made up gods to fool the gullible. I suspect that priesthoods have always contained more hucksters than "true believers".

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 10:56 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Doddy, posted 02-05-2007 11:14 PM ringo has replied
 Message 88 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 11:38 PM ringo has replied

  
Doddy
Member (Idle past 5909 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 86 of 134 (382768)
02-05-2007 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by ringo
02-05-2007 11:02 PM


The first teachers were shamans who made up gods to fool the gullible.
I think it more likely that the shamans were the most gullible of the lot.
The human mind has a great tendency to make Type 1 errors (see patterns where none exist), much larger than our tendancy for Type 2 errors (to miss a pattern). It would be better to run away from a possible predator or enemy than to miss the warnings...so it's better to hear voices in the wind or see faces in the rocks than to miss them.
So, these shamans are probably the ones making the most errors, and telling the people about it (spreading the memes!). It would only take a few people to corroborate it and this shaman would be considered truly perceptive and wise, and given the position of healer and seer etc.

"Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 11:02 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 11:23 PM Doddy has not replied
 Message 89 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 11:43 PM Doddy has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 87 of 134 (382774)
02-05-2007 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Doddy
02-05-2007 11:14 PM


Doddy writes:
I think it more likely that the shamans were the most gullible of the lot.
That's entirely possible. The fooler-to-foolee ratio could go either way.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5953 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 88 of 134 (382783)
02-05-2007 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by ringo
02-05-2007 11:02 PM


Ringo writes:
The teacher could be anybody.
Oh, I don't care who the teacher is, I want to know where he got his 'god-sense'.
So, now you want to say there is no god-sense, but a made-up story to fool the gullible. If this is your belief, then you do indeed have no religion, nothing beyond the natural to explain your existance, nothing but science to appease your searching mind. I can't imagine limiting my mind so much, when it has been given to me with so much capacity for something more. I can find fault in your words even if I look into myself. There is no gullibility, not even for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 11:02 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 11:45 PM anastasia has replied
 Message 98 by nator, posted 02-06-2007 8:57 AM anastasia has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5953 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 89 of 134 (382784)
02-05-2007 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Doddy
02-05-2007 11:14 PM


Doddy writes:
So, these shamans are probably the ones making the most errors, and telling the people about it (spreading the memes!). It would only take a few people to corroborate it and this shaman would be considered truly perceptive and wise, and given the position of healer and seer etc.
Yeah, by a few people.
There is also the possibility that patterns do exist in things which can not be tested, and that shamans are the only ones who CAN see them. Science, remember, can only test what it can understand. The important thing is that humans have the ability to recognize and miss patterns. Any correlation between religious tendencies and people who don't miss patterns, or vice versa?
Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Doddy, posted 02-05-2007 11:14 PM Doddy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by crashfrog, posted 02-06-2007 12:21 AM anastasia has not replied
 Message 94 by Doddy, posted 02-06-2007 1:30 AM anastasia has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 90 of 134 (382785)
02-05-2007 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by anastasia
02-05-2007 11:38 PM


anastasia writes:
I can't imagine limiting my mind so much....
Do you realize how funny that sounds? If you weren't putting limits on your mind, you could imagine more.
Being responsible for your own questions and answers doesn't limit your mind.
It challenges your mind.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 11:38 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 11:54 PM ringo has replied

  
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