|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total) |
| |
popoi | |
Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: The Flood | |||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
National Geographic - 404
This is a local flood caused by the rising sea level breaching into what was a low lying freshwater lake. May well be the origin for the myth of a large flood, but there are problems: for one the water did not go back down, rather that area has stayed flooded. Enjoy. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Freshwater shells were found by Bob Ballard and crew:
National Geographic - 404
quote: andNational Geographic - 404 quote: Don't be so quick to rule out freshwater mussels. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I saw a documentary on this theory too, except that, it appeared to be geared towards "debunking" the Genesis version in favor of a bizarre interpretation of the Epic of Gilgamesh. The idea advanced by certain creationists is that during the antediluvian era that was not nearly as much water as there is today. They hypothesize over that because certain underwater regions appear to be like canyons formed by rushing water. And how they account for the much higher volume of water is that they believe, based on the Bible, that there was a "firmament" that acted as a vapor canopy. They have seemed to abandon this theory, however. The second is that huge resevoirs of water were underground, according to parts of the Bible and the Book of Jasher. The claim is that the water was initially fresh, however, over time salt deposits accumulate over time as rivers carry these deposits in to the sea all the time. Which is bizarre? According to who? LOL. "Channeling" something ... Actually, what we have here is a low area that was inundated by rising sea-water, which then flooded over where a fresh-water lake had been (at the - gosh - low point of the low area?). This is a perfect way to test creationist theory: what evidence should we find of human habited areas flooded by a large influx of water? Turbulence, sedimentation layers, all the rest. Time for creationists to get out and do some science like they've never done before ... they can actually test some of their concepts eh? Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : toyp compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
and in a heavy rain or fog it is easy to lose sight of the "horizon" ... coupled with the "bizarre" behavior of animals to congregate at high points as an area floods - carnivore with herbivore - and then pile everything onto a makeshift raft that drifts for several days before bumping into shore ...
... but I still want to know if there are signs of human habitation down there: so far results = 0. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I was pointing it out as a potential error on the part of the author if he claimed Mytilus were freshwater. Given the lazy attention to detail noted above, it is likely he thought freshwater mussel, ... , mussel= Mytilus, ... , therefore ... Again this presents an opportunity to test certain flood "hypothesis" -- such as all water before the "flood" was freshwater ... this would mean that all freshwater mussels are related to a common pre-flood freshwater mussel ... compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
actually no, not yet anyway, maybe:
National Geographic - 404
quote: But the jury is still out -- this is a working hypothesis until more data is in (including carbon dating of the wood). We'll have to wait for the next installment ... except they seem to have stopped in 2000. My guess is that they need to make another expedition, and given a certain altering of the world of politics in 2001 .... compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
All I'm saying is that any evidence, regardless of quantity which lends support to Biblical flood is evidence. Evidence for a concept is not sufficient to render it credible when there is evidence that refutes it that is not addressed. There is evidence that the sun orbits the earth - you can see it every day. This is not sufficient to render a geocentric model of the solar system and universe credible, because there is evidence that refutes it. No amount of evidence for a geocentric earth will make it a valid concept without addressing the evidence that refutes this concept. No amount of evidence for a biblical flood will make it a valid concept without addressing the evidence that refutes this concept. Ignoring the evidence that refutes a position is not faith, nor it is a matter of a "different interpretation" - it is a matter of denial of evidence that refutes the concept:
The question is not whether delusion is involved, but what level of delusion is involved.
By the same token that you folks are chiding me, science has yet to prove that the amount of water to do the Black Sea thing did not affect the whole planet. There is no evidence of a contemporaneous flood of all parts at one point in time. This gets into dating arguments which can be addressed elsewhere (Age Correlations and an Old Earth: Version 1 No 3 (formerly Part III) is a place to start). This also deals with denial of evidence that refutes a young earth model. Conspiracy theories on why Ballard has not pursued further research are inconsequential when it would be possible for ICR or some other corporate creationist propaganda site to fund some real research (for once). Enjoy. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
You'd think they would get the picture after corollating fossils of huge insects with massive amounts of oxygen in ice cores from the same time period. {sarcasm}I wonder if atmosphere plays a role in what organisms are around!{/sarcasm} Geez... Careful with what you mean by massive. There is evidence that oxygen was more abundant during the age of the dinosaurs. Mind you this means going back at least 65 million years to get there ... and the difference is percents not factors. Edited by RAZD, : ubb b da code Edited by RAZD, : pyto compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
That can work both ways Razd. Of course it can work both ways. That is why the perceptions of reality become an issue. How do you validate positions? With objective verifiable evidence or hope-filled belief? When there is a preponderance of objective verifiable evidence on one side and a preponderance of hope-filled belief on the other -- such as for a sun-centered solar system versus earth centered; such as for an old earth versus a young one -- then it is NOT the side with objective verifiable evidence that is in denial\delusion but the one with hope-filled belief. Particularly when the objective verifiable evidence contradicts the hope-filled belief. Now if you had some evidence, something other than say:
Message 93 Not if it was created intact in such a manner that the conditions were just right for it to remain there until the flood when some change occured to change it. As I said before, the atmosphere was likely much more expansive and different than what is observed today. Message 94I, Dr Baumgardner and others have for a long time argued that if there were a different pre-Biblical flood atmosphere carbon and nitrogen properties in the atmosphere and in all preflood fossils et al would not be the same as post flood rendering Carbon dating inaccurate. This is hope-filled belief, wishful thinking, without a shred of evidence that it COULD be true except by magic. We have evidence from actual annual layers that correlate with climate change for the last 200,000 years by several different systems and not one of them shows a significant change in climate. These systems verify carbon dating and don't rely on it. See Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 for what I am talking about (new topic not yet promoted, you'll have to respond to Age Correlations and an Old Earth: Version 1 No 3 (formerly Part III), the older version with much of the same information, just not as up to date with the new data. Bottom line, climate has been fairly much the same for the duration of these records, they are annual and the earth is old. Oh, and there was no flood in all that time either. Denial of this evidence is not an alternative explanation, it is delusion. Enjoy. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
As I recall several eras before the Dinosaurs had a % of oxygen far higher then it is today, allowing huge arthropods to evolve. Dragonflys with 12 feet wingspans, spiders the size of dinner plates... From wikipedia:
quote: quote: Two feet is not twelve ... and compares to the largest today:
quote: They don't list either the body length for Meganeura monyi nor the body weight for Megaloprepus caeruleata, so comparisons of anything but the wings is not possible here, and that is not valid for body size.
quote: The fact is that oxygen was almost non-existent early in the course of life on earth (until released by microbes), then it reached several high points, one roughly in the carboniferous period and another during the age of dinosaurs, and is lower now - with several oscillations in between. Multiple highs and lows are not explained by one (1) event. Enjoy. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Should have said atmospheric oxygen. It was tied up in oxides, like the rocks today. The evidence is in the sedimentary layers of red iron that were not fully oxidized.
This was before aerobic bacteria evolved from anaerobic ones: the anaerobic ones released the oxygen as by-products of their metabolism - CO2 and CH4 (methane) (like some anaerobic ones today) - and plants then evolved to use the CO2 and release O2. http://gsa.confex.com/...1ESP/finalprogram/abstract_7607.htmhttp://gsa.confex.com/...1ESP/finalprogram/abstract_6525.htm http://gsa.confex.com/...1ESP/finalprogram/abstract_7978.htm It took a while for the atmospheric Oxygen to build up enough to make a difference. This is before any multicellular life existed. Also see Timeline of the evolutionary history of life - Wikipedia Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : added atmospheric to oxygen at end compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Its kind of funny there is such a lack of evidence supporting an old earth and sometimes feel like I'm the spider and the evolutionists the fly. Which, of course, was why you could never get past the Lake Suigetsu varves to deal with the rest of the data on the age of the earth ... you kept tying yourself up thinking you had a fly?
Perhaps a troll is someone that simply outgrows the debate and it truely is futile for both the spider and the fly. Or is just someone who never really fully engages the evidence, but flirts around it: more like a moth to a candle, eh? (Can't get too close now, might get burned). Enjoy. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
He's smart enough to know that he cannot survive a substance over style debate. And deluded enough to think he can ignore it and thus make the big pink elephant in the room go away? Of course I think all flood proponents are delusional .... (ducks) LOL compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024