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Author Topic:   Did the sky really go dark as biblical inerrantists insist?
velcero
Inactive Junior Member


Message 69 of 113 (384607)
02-12-2007 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
08-11-2006 7:03 AM


Response to Nator
First of all, the statement in the Bible is that "darkness came over the whole land", not "the whole world." If you are going to criticize, get your facts correct.
Did it ever occur to you that the darkness was caused by thick, dense clouds? Anyone older than 10 years old has experienced dark cloud cover as part of approaching heavy rains, which can also be described as eclipsing the sun. (The word eclipse simply means to hide, conceal or obscure. It DOES NOT refer exclusively to one planetary body moving in front of another.)
Furthermore, when historians attempt to judge the accuracy of some report in the past, they pretty much dismiss it if only one account reports the event. If two different reports exist, historians consider the event possible. If there are three or more reports that corroborate the event, it is considered to be historically accurate. The same description quoted above occurs in Matthew, Mark and Luke. And they all say "land" not "world".
Another point about historical accuracy. The Bible is the single most criticized book in the world. Tests that would confirm authenticity to historians for other writings usually do not confirm the same authenticity for the Bible. That's because people like Nator and Brian have their eyes closed to anything the Bible has to say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 08-11-2006 7:03 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by LinearAq, posted 02-12-2007 2:09 PM velcero has replied
 Message 71 by nator, posted 02-12-2007 4:14 PM velcero has not replied
 Message 89 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-19-2007 8:17 PM velcero has not replied

  
velcero
Inactive Junior Member


Message 76 of 113 (385379)
02-15-2007 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by LinearAq
02-12-2007 2:09 PM


Re: Land or World?
It is amazing how critics seem to want it both ways. Critics about Noah's Flood say that "all the world" (paraphrasing) simply means the local area. It was not the whole earth that was covered but only a regional flood. They contend that there would not have been enough water to cover the whole earth, including the mountains. But the Bible does say the whole earth. Regarding the darkness at the Crucifiction, the Bible mentions the whole land. My contention here is that this does not refer to the whole earth. If it did, it would have emphasized it, just as the Bible says in the Flood story.
The main point of my initial reply though was to disagree with the standpoint that someone made about the impossibility of a 3-day eclipse of the sun that would have produced the darkness. The only reasonable cause would have been dark cloud cover. Of course the author knows the difference between cloud cover and darkness. But think about it. If the weather were changing because of approaching heavy rains, one would probably remark about how dark it would be getting. He would not resort to meteorological terminology.
I do not know your moral position. I will propose to you, though, that contrary to the critics, the Bible is extremely historically accurate. Yes it is a book based in theism. However, it is also a witness in a sense to geology, biology and other sciences. Of course it does not use scientific terminology, which had not yet even been invented. The fact is that many of the sciences, particularly archaeology and geology have supported the historicity of the Bible. That does not mean that the Bible has been "proven" accurate in every respect. But one thing is for sure - nothing has proven the Bible wrong, except for those who choose to hold that it is only a book of fairy tales.
Now I know many of you are salivating right now to come back at me with pseudo-scientific jargon about this or that or the other. I am not going to enter into an unending thread. But I challenge you to re-evaluate the data from a totally objective viewpoint. View the data only as it is, not as what can be deduced by conjecture or opinion as to what seemingly happened in the past. Read the words, and if you have a problem understanding them literally, then understand them in a colloquial sense and in the manner that the author may have used words. A modern example is the word gay. A century ago the word was used prolifically to mean happy, fun, etc. - the "gay nineties" referred to the decade of the 1890's. Today we of course know what it has come to mean. So if a future historian would be reading about John Doe who lived in the early part of the 20th century and that he was gay, you could see how controversial a discussion about him would be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by LinearAq, posted 02-12-2007 2:09 PM LinearAq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-19-2007 8:23 PM velcero has not replied

  
velcero
Inactive Junior Member


Message 77 of 113 (385384)
02-15-2007 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by LinearAq
02-12-2007 2:09 PM


Re: Land or World?
I do not know which bible your quote came from. In my Bible, the quote from Luke 23:44 is "It was now about noon and darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon". There is not mention of the whole earth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by LinearAq, posted 02-12-2007 2:09 PM LinearAq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by ringo, posted 02-15-2007 12:41 PM velcero has replied
 Message 79 by LinearAq, posted 02-16-2007 9:38 AM velcero has not replied

  
velcero
Inactive Junior Member


Message 81 of 113 (385938)
02-18-2007 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by ringo
02-15-2007 12:41 PM


Re: Land or World?
The Bible I use is the Latin Vulgate. I consider this the most accurate translation of the original books (no offense intended to anyone). I take this position because it is the original approved translation. All bibles since have put different twists on translations and have assumed certain license to interpret the books to suit the authors' own agendas.
Again, the main point of my original point was to address someone's comment about the impossibility of a 3-day eclipse of the sun. That is why I proposed the position that the sun being darkened was more probably caused by heavy cloud cover, whether it occurred locally or world-wide was not my main point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by ringo, posted 02-15-2007 12:41 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by ringo, posted 02-18-2007 11:59 AM velcero has replied

  
velcero
Inactive Junior Member


Message 83 of 113 (385948)
02-18-2007 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by ringo
02-18-2007 11:59 AM


Shallow opinions are permissable, as well as graphical @&^*ing language.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by ringo, posted 02-18-2007 11:59 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by ringo, posted 02-18-2007 1:05 PM velcero has replied
 Message 88 by AdminPD, posted 02-18-2007 5:42 PM velcero has not replied

  
velcero
Inactive Junior Member


Message 86 of 113 (385955)
02-18-2007 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by ringo
02-18-2007 1:05 PM


You are right. I choose not to dignify your response with another one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by ringo, posted 02-18-2007 1:05 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by ringo, posted 02-18-2007 1:44 PM velcero has not replied

  
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