Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,824 Year: 4,081/9,624 Month: 952/974 Week: 279/286 Day: 40/46 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Did the sky really go dark as biblical inerrantists insist?
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4086 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 72 of 113 (384669)
02-12-2007 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by LinearAq
08-15-2006 1:42 PM


Re: Geesh!
randman writes:
Has it ever occurred to any of you that "over the whole earth" there refers to an eyewitness that saw darkness over all the earth visible to them?
LinearAq writes:
Does this same logic apply to the "whole earth" being flooded and Noah being saved?
Does this same logic apply to "two of every animal" being put on the ark?
How about Christ dying on the cross to save "the whole earth"?
This may have been discussed, but I saw no reply to this.
I'm assuming that by saying this, you think that most, or at least many, Bible believers would answer that the same logic doesn't apply, but applying that logic to the flood is probably more common than not, even among Bible believers, though not among fundies.
There's even a whole segment of Christianity (Calvinists) that apply it to Christ dying on the cross.
You can't apply the idea of "every doesn't mean every" or "the whole world doesn't really mean the whole world" to every instance, but there's many places in the Bible and in everyone's communication where you do apply it. We all make that choice here and there, but not everywhere.
Personally, I think it would be silly to apply the Gospel's "darkness over all the earth" to places like Germany. How would the Gospel writer know that? It seems obvious he meant "as far as the eye can see," or at least that he probably meant that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by LinearAq, posted 08-15-2006 1:42 PM LinearAq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by LinearAq, posted 02-13-2007 11:26 AM truthlover has replied

  
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4086 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 74 of 113 (385180)
02-14-2007 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by LinearAq
02-13-2007 11:26 AM


Re: Geesh!
BTW, good looking kids in your avatar...yours?
Thank you, yes, though the pictures are from about 3 years ago.
By what criteria does one determine that "whole earth" doesn't mean this entire globe that we live upon?
Where is the support in the text that differentiates this from other instances of "whole earth" within the Bible?
You don't have to differentiate it. Jer 15:10 has a man saying he is "a man of contention to the whole earth." Clearly he did not mean China, or even Ethiopia. Later, in Jer 50:23, Babylon is described as a hammer of the whole earth, yet we can be assured that most Celts had never heard of them. In Ez 32:4, God says he'll fill the beasts of the whole earth with the fallen of Egypt. Again, it's doubtful that he meant to include the tigers of India or the tasmanian wolf in that.
A great example of this sort of speech is in Psalm 14, where there is none that does good "no, not one," but it goes on to say that God is with the generation of the righteous.
There is much all inclusive speech, even Biblically, that is not all inclusive.
He knew it the same way that Paul knew that homosexuals would not see the kingdom of heaven but crab lovers would. Inspiration by the Holy Spirit of course.
There are those that take inspiration to extremes and thus deny some pretty obvious science. There are others who believe the morals of Scripture are really from God. Just because one believes that the moral teachings of Scripture are inspired by God does not in any way suggest that they're obligated to believe that "the whole earth" always means the entire globe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by LinearAq, posted 02-13-2007 11:26 AM LinearAq has not replied

  
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4086 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 75 of 113 (385182)
02-14-2007 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by nator
02-12-2007 4:14 PM


Re: Response to Nator
the occupying Romans, with all of their meticulous record keeping
I have no vested interest in this argument. Whether there was a supernatural solar eclipse, a bad thunderstorm rolling in, or nothing at all makes no difference to me whatsoever.
However, are you sure this is true? Would there really be something available documenting a severe afternoon darkness in Judah? Do we really have some sort of daily or thorough historical record of Pontius Pilate's governorship?
I'm not so sure that the Romans had the kind of thorough record keeping that you suggest, or it seems like we wouldn't rely on folks like Tacitus and Josephus so much.
Clearly, the other three gospels mention it as though it was a meaningful, unusual, supernatural event that was caused by the death of Jesus, not some clouds or smoke that just happened to be concurrent with his death.
I would think that you'd had enough discussions with me to know that folks like us are perfectly happy ascribing supernatural sources to some seemingly mundane events. I have always read that passage as unusually heavy cloud cover, since the first time I read it in 1982. I've surely read it 40 or 50 times since, and I don't think I've ever considered anything else, though I admit it's never been at the forefront of my thought.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by nator, posted 02-12-2007 4:14 PM nator has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024