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Author Topic:   Valentine's Day Challenge
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3425 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 1 of 55 (385098)
02-14-2007 3:34 AM


I thought this was interesting...
From an article on Alternet by Julie Enszer
I tell people that I am a lesbian regularly. In the gay and lesbian communities, we call that "coming out." Sometimes coming out is overt; I say, "I'm a lesbian." Sometimes, it is subtle; I refer to my partner as my "wife" or I mention that I am vacationing with my partner and specify her sex with the pronoun, "her." When I do this, I sometimes still get raised eyebrows or double-takes. I'm fine with that. I appreciate the opportunity to be visible to people who might not know that they know and interact with a lesbian on a regular basis.
I'm confounded, though, when people ask me why I need to tell people that I am a lesbian or that my partner is a woman. Here is the truth: I don't need to tell people that I'm gay. I never plan or want to tell people that I'm a lesbian. It just comes up in daily conversation.
Consider this: I'm at the grocery store checking out and the cashier says, "Oh, yum, you're making greens!" I, equally chatty, reply, "Actually, I'm not going to make them, but my wife will." She says, without pause, "Well, I'm sure they will be delicious."
Or this: I'm talking with someone at work about the holidays and how happy I am to just have a quiet holiday alone with my partner. In the process of talking about my partner, the work colleague asks, "What does your husband do?" I say, "She's a lawyer." The colleagues pauses, very briefly, but then continues the conversation.
Now these are just two examples of the easy, social ways that I, and other gay and lesbian people, come out. There are situations when it is necessary and much more difficult to come out. An in-law is sick or infirmed; a partner is diagnosed with a disease. Tragic grief and loss are times when many gay and lesbian people are forced to come out to co-workers, family, and friends, to get time off and the support that they need to weather the crisis.
We in the gay and lesbian community understand coming out, but I've found that coming out isn't easy for some heterosexual folks to understand. They still think, but WHY do you NEED to come out?
To answer that, I have a challenge for you: This Valentine's Day, don't indicate to anyone all day what the gender of your sweetie is. Evade. When people ask, "What are you doing this evening?" Say, "I'm having dinner with a someone special," or, "My partner and I are seeing a movie." Some people will assume that the person you reference is of the opposite sex. Some people may think you are in a same-sex relationship. How do you feel about that? How do you think gay and lesbian people feel?
Some people probe further, if they do, avoid revealing the gender. Refer to your significant other as a person without the use of any pronouns. Don't use "him" or "her"; keep the dialogue as "we" or "us." If it gets too uncomfortable, absent yourself from the conversation. If someone probes too much, say, "I'm uncomfortable sharing more with you." How do you feel about that? What does the person you are talking to think about that?
Do it for one day. Valentine's Day. It may be the day we talk the most about our intimate relationships, but it is only 24 hours to not tell anyone the gender of the person with whom you'll celebrate.
Watch how people react. Observe how people -- friends and strangers -- respond to your evasions. How do you feel about concealing the gender of your special someone? How do you feel about other's reactions to your silence? What for you is lost? And what for you is gained?
Try it for one day. See how it goes. Then think about the fact that this is what gay and lesbian people do every day. Either we stay "in the closet" and don't reveal the gender of our sweethearts or we do. My hunch is that after one day of doing the same yourself, you'll understand why we make the choices that we do and you won't need to ask why any longer.
Edited by Jaderis, : italics

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Jon, posted 02-14-2007 4:10 AM Jaderis has not replied
 Message 3 by ringo, posted 02-14-2007 11:13 AM Jaderis has not replied
 Message 4 by Archer Opteryx, posted 02-14-2007 12:24 PM Jaderis has replied
 Message 5 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-14-2007 12:44 PM Jaderis has replied
 Message 20 by nyenye, posted 02-14-2007 2:35 PM Jaderis has not replied
 Message 29 by anastasia, posted 02-14-2007 9:26 PM Jaderis has not replied

  
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3425 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 33 of 55 (385325)
02-15-2007 3:59 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Archer Opteryx
02-14-2007 12:24 PM


Re: Feast Day
I want to write you
a love poem as headlong
as our creek
after thaw
when we stand
on its dangerous
banks and watch it carry
with it every twig
every dry leaf and branch
in its path
every scruple
when we see it
so swollen
with runoff
that even as we watch
we must grab
each other
and step back
we must grab each
other or
get our shoes
soaked we must
grab each other
Thank you for sharing such a beautiful poem, Archer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Archer Opteryx, posted 02-14-2007 12:24 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Archer Opteryx, posted 02-15-2007 4:59 AM Jaderis has replied

  
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3425 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 34 of 55 (385327)
02-15-2007 4:28 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Hyroglyphx
02-14-2007 12:44 PM


I guess I'm not seeing the challenge or experiment in it. The plain fact is that there is an extraordinarily larger amount of heterosexuals than there are homosexuals. Therefore, most people do assume that the person they are speaking with is heterosexual. The writer seems as if she has just made some sort of sociological break through here. I guess I don't see the point in the experiment.
Yes, there are an "extraordinarily larger amount" of straights than gays. That is why it is fairly easy for many gay people to "pass" and most of their friends and family members (except your grandmothers...they always know )will accept their deceptions. This exercise is not a challenge in the sense that it should be hard on others, but that it should be hard on yourself.
The assumption that most anyone you talk to is heterosexual allows many gay people to dance around the subject of their sexuality with no one being the wiser. That does not mean it is easy on the dancer.
The "point of the experiment" is to put on the pointe shoes and see how your toes feel after a day of wearing them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-14-2007 12:44 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-15-2007 9:59 AM Jaderis has replied

  
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3425 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 35 of 55 (385328)
02-15-2007 4:34 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Hyroglyphx
02-14-2007 1:19 PM


Re: The point
I got the memo, but I still don't understand the point. People feel stigmatized for all sorts of reasons. I mean, what exactly does she want? Sympathy because most people are heterosexual? If she was just born homosexual and I was just born heterosexual, and its noboady's fault, what exactly am I supposed to feel sorry about? If that's the way it is, then that's the way it is, right?
No one is "supposed to feel sorry" for us. That's not the point.
"Try walking in my shoes
You'll stumble in my footsteps..."

This message is a reply to:
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Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3425 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 36 of 55 (385329)
02-15-2007 4:52 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Hyroglyphx
02-14-2007 1:51 PM


Re: Attitudinal responses
Well, that's on her because she doesn't need to hide it. You think I hide my beliefs to the world? My beliefs that homosexuality is unnatural is far less popular now than the belief that gay is okay. I don't see the fear in it. I could understand it twenty or thirty years ago, but not now. Unless she's at a neo-Nazi rally or something. Then I could understand it as being faux pax.
Well, espousing a belief that homosexuality is unnatural is ALOT less likely to get you fired than being gay (which Schraf pointed out is legal in many states). I also do not see many gays or gay rights supporters threatening to kill (or actually killing) or physically harm people who express their anti-gay beliefs.
The most you get by stating your personal beliefs about homosexuals is scorn from "liberals" and possible shunning by people who do not agree with you (maybe the ACLU won't hire you, according to you). I doubt anyone has ever threatened your life or body for saying or believing that homosexuality is immoral.

This message is a reply to:
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Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3425 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 38 of 55 (385331)
02-15-2007 5:39 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Archer Opteryx
02-15-2007 4:59 AM


Re: Feast Day
Yes...all love indeed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Archer Opteryx, posted 02-15-2007 4:59 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3425 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 47 of 55 (385706)
02-16-2007 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by AZPaul3
02-15-2007 5:40 PM


Re: So you're gay, green, ugly...
This entire exercise is an appeal for empathy.
What's wrong with empathy?
So you find life is unfair, hard, ridiculous, painful and all too often psychologically brutal and no one seems to be sensitive enough to your petty little problem. Deal with it. And take your self-pity somewhere else. My plate is already full.
This was not an exercise in self-pity. My state of mind does not hinge on whether or not someone is "sensitive" to me. I don't know where you gathered that from.
This was simply something I thought would give people a different perspective on the day to day lives of closeted gays and lesbians.
We are human. Sometimes we are not as empathetic towards others as those others think we should be. We all have issues of one sort or another.
This is, unfortunately, true. This, however, does not mean that any attempts to gain empathy with another group of people are meaningless and should not be attempted because "we all have problems."
Being gay, black, quadriplegic, blind, Arab, deaf, pregnant, republican, homeless, white, terminal, stupid, Jew, democrat, atheist, Nazi having dandruff or rickets or fibromyalgia or halitosis or cleft lip or buck teeth being stuck in prison or Wyoming or being green from eating too much broccoli is a nit compared to the vast majority of human sufferings.
Again, true, but just because there are starving children in this world does not mean that any attempt at understanding those who are different from yourself should be abandoned for more meaningful pursuits. In fact, it seems to me that those who learn to understand and emapthize with groups of humans different from themselves very quickly realize the humanity and inherent dignity of not just that one "other," but all humans. It is no mistake that there is alot of crossover (at least as far as I have observed) in membership in or support of varying social organizations (OxFam, Habitat for Humanity, Doctors Without Borders, PFLAG, Peace and Justice groups, etc).
Support for one group does not automatically exclude one from supporting any other groups. It is simply inane to suggest that anyone who spends any amount of time concentrating on gay and lesbian issues is ignoring all of the other suffering in this world.

This message is a reply to:
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Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3425 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 48 of 55 (385708)
02-16-2007 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Hyroglyphx
02-15-2007 9:59 AM


Re: Coming out
Alright. Tell me a little about your own story. Have you come out of the closet, if so, how long did it take you to make that transition? Who in your life was very supportive and who was resistant?
I've already revealed a little about myself in various threads. My post count isn't so high that they should be too hard to find.
This thread, however, is not supposed to be about me.
Some people are obviously more easy to spot out than others. Were/are you able to keep a level of anonymity with others?
Most gay people can spot me a mile away. Most straight people (esp. males) assume I am straight.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-15-2007 9:59 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3425 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 49 of 55 (385709)
02-16-2007 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Hyroglyphx
02-15-2007 1:28 PM


Re: Coming out
Then if I'm going to play this game, why not go all out? Why simply not allude to the sex of my wife when I could just be gay for a day? I could make topics surface that would imply that I'm gay and I could judge their body language and reactions. Sound good to you?
How's that for being the customer?
Didn't Dan Carroll propose something quite similar to this not too long ago?
I think this is a fantastic idea, altho you would probably have to spend the day around people you do not know. I think your friends and family would see right through your facade and ruin the experiment, but I think it would be interesting to surround yourself with another group of people who mirror your current circle. Maybe pop into a church across town that is similar to yours or something like that.

This message is a reply to:
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