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Author Topic:   Valentine's Day Challenge
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 55 (385157)
02-14-2007 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jaderis
02-14-2007 3:34 AM


Some people will assume that the person you reference is of the opposite sex.
How odd that people would assume that. Yes, I'm being facetious.
Watch how people react. Observe how people -- friends and strangers -- respond to your evasions. How do you feel about concealing the gender of your special someone? How do you feel about other's reactions to your silence? What for you is lost? And what for you is gained?
I guess I'm not seeing the challenge or experiment in it. The plain fact is that there is an extraordinarily larger amount of heterosexuals than there are homosexuals. Therefore, most people do assume that the person they are speaking with is heterosexual. The writer seems as if she has just made some sort of sociological break through here. I guess I don't see the point in the experiment.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jaderis, posted 02-14-2007 3:34 AM Jaderis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by crashfrog, posted 02-14-2007 12:50 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 7 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-14-2007 1:06 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 9 by Taz, posted 02-14-2007 1:15 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 13 by Lithodid-Man, posted 02-14-2007 1:28 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 15 by ringo, posted 02-14-2007 1:47 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 34 by Jaderis, posted 02-15-2007 4:28 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 55 (385168)
02-14-2007 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by crashfrog
02-14-2007 12:50 PM


The point
The point is - how do you think it feels to be on the other end of that? And to have all the blame for it put on you?
I got the memo, but I still don't understand the point. People feel stigmatized for all sorts of reasons. I mean, what exactly does she want? Sympathy because most people are heterosexual? If she was just born homosexual and I was just born heterosexual, and its noboady's fault, what exactly am I supposed to feel sorry about? If that's the way it is, then that's the way it is, right?

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by crashfrog, posted 02-14-2007 12:50 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by kuresu, posted 02-14-2007 1:25 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 14 by Taz, posted 02-14-2007 1:31 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 27 by crashfrog, posted 02-14-2007 7:01 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 35 by Jaderis, posted 02-15-2007 4:34 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 55 (385179)
02-14-2007 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Taz
02-14-2007 1:15 PM


Attitudinal responses
Seeing your attitude toward gay people, I can see how most of them prefer not to show themselves to you, and that is why you still think there just aren't many around.
I don't have an attitude about gay people, I have an attitude about homosexuality. I recognize that there are multiple layers of people. I don't focus on any specific aspect of a persons life. Do you think that I can't speak to a homosexual just because they're gay? That would be silly. I don't have to like the sin but I can still like the person. Know what I mean? You have very opposite views about homosexuality than I do, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't like you just because of those beliefs. Please don't make me out to be Fred Phelps.
Take my word for it, just like white protestant males like you, gay people people are everywhere and they are here to stay.
That was profound.
I have taken this challenge a long time ago. For a week, I tried to avoid telling people the gender of my significant other (aka my wife). I always referred to her as "the person" or "my better half". The interesting thing that I noticed was people who would otherwise don't care much for gays were the ones that kept trying to probe me to try to make me spell out the gender of my significant other.
It sounds like a conspiracy.
I have a co-worker who's been working there for 5 years now. I only recently found out she's been married (not legally of course) to the same woman for 10 years now.
Well, that's on her because she doesn't need to hide it. You think I hide my beliefs to the world? My beliefs that homosexuality is unnatural is far less popular now than the belief that gay is okay. I don't see the fear in it. I could understand it twenty or thirty years ago, but not now. Unless she's at a neo-Nazi rally or something. Then I could understand it as being faux pax.
The sociological break through is do you have any idea how hard it is to try to hide the gender of your significant other, especially when the very language we use everyday to communicate with other people is designed to make it hard for us to hide people's gender?
Why does she have to hide it? If people treat her like a pariah after she comes out, then bye, who needs them anyway? She might be surpised how many people accept her anyway.
Why do I have the priviledge of using "my wife" or "her" or "she" just because I'm part of a majority while the people who belong to the minority in this respect have to use something as lame as "my significant other" just to make people like you feel happy?
Because heterosexuality is normal and homosexuality is abnormal. And before you freak out, what I mean is that heterosexuality is the norm and homosexuality isn't. Are you going to fault nature for that? Do you feel bad because you were born straight?

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Taz, posted 02-14-2007 1:15 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-14-2007 2:05 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 18 by Heathen, posted 02-14-2007 2:08 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 22 by nator, posted 02-14-2007 3:08 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 36 by Jaderis, posted 02-15-2007 4:52 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 55 (385187)
02-14-2007 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by ringo
02-14-2007 1:47 PM


So, am I a lesbian?
I'm a thespian too.... Ohhhhh, lesbian.
Go ahead, read all my posts and see what hints I've given about my sexuality. I'll wait.
I've never thought about your sexuality Ringo.
Have you been assuming all along that I was a straight male?
Your sexual preference has never come across my mind. I have assumed you were a male. Perhaps a subliminal thing. Your name is Ringo and your former avatar was male.
What would change if you found out I was a lesbian? Would you think less of me?
No Ringo, I don't think I could think any less of you. I'm teasing. Seriously, I wouldn't care. Jaderis is a lesbian (I think) and I think she's a sharp cookie. I enjoy having here on the forum and I enjoy having you here on the forum as well.
Knowing you, though, methinks you're playing the devil's advocate. I call bluff. Lay down the cards.
And this is only the Internet. What about real life
Whoa! Wait a minute.... This isn't real life? Dammit! Percy lied to me!
What would you think of my wife if she was the same sex as me?
I wouldn't think anything of it. Just like I don't think anything about Jaderis' wife or girlfriend or lover or whatever.
I know this all may be very hard for you guys to believe because I'm so outspoken. But I'm not nearly the raging a-hole you think I am. I don't think I'm unreasonable. I view homosexuality very practically. I view it like all other things that I think affect people negatively. You don't want to hear that I have homosexual friends because you might think I'm just using that as the token gay-friend. But its not true. There is not one thing different about the homosexual than me. Do I believe that homosexuality is a sin? Yeah, I do. And I don't beat around the bush with that. But I don't brow beat and I don't condemn people because of that because I have my own sin too. I think its easier for you all to think that I hate you, but I don't. Not one of you. Some of you really tick me off, but I know I tick you guys off too. I try to keep it in perspective.
You know, Andrew Sullivan is a gay conservative, Christian. He recognizes that somebody like myself may be uncompromising on the issue of homosexuality, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to ostracize him for that. If I knew him and he asked my beliefs on that. I would tell him straight to his face how I feel about it. But that doesn't mean that I couldn't have a laugh with the man and talk about all sorts of other things.
Lastly, it is very important to clear up any misconceptions and to get over certain stigmas regarding homosexuals. The maltreatment of homosexuals is simply unacceptable from a Christian standpoint. Many Christians have singled out homosexuality with ferocity and has either intentionally or inadvertently deemed it as a worse sin than others have. When dealing with God’s Law, this just isn’t so.
Homosexuality is no worse, or better, than any sexual immorality. ALL sin is alike to God. While never placating or condoning homosexual behavior, it is important not to harbor a spirit of condemnation. I believe that wholeheartedly. I think the second worst thing you could do is to completely placate or patronize them, which I think, many, many EvC members do. They don't need that. They need us to treat them the way you'd treat any one else. And if that's the purpose of this women's inquiry, then I get it.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by ringo, posted 02-14-2007 1:47 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by ringo, posted 02-14-2007 2:42 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 55 (385218)
02-14-2007 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by ringo
02-14-2007 2:42 PM


"Devil's advocate" would mean I was defending a position that I don't agree with. That is definitely not what I am doing.
So are you a lesbian or not? (keeping in mind that in order to be a lesbian, you would have to be a female).
I'm trying to make a point about anonymity and ambiguity. On the Internet, it can be dangerous to give out specific information about yourself.
Yeah, like divulging your pin number is ill-advised. I don't see how telling us if you were gay or straight, male or female would qualify.
Unfortunately, that can be true in real life too, for homosexuals. Even an everyday phrase like "my wife" can get you in trouble.
With who?
The challenge, as I understand it, is to spend a day in somebody else's shoes. Try to go through a whole day without mentioning your partner's gender. Try to understand what it's like to live every day like that.
I'd rather know what its like to be in the shoes of a crippled person, which to me, seems far more grievous than someone who doesn't feel comfortable with divulging their sexual identity.
quote:
Homosexuality is no worse, or better, than any sexual immorality.
This is not the place for it, but we might have to have a thread on what "sexual immorality" is - since you evidently don't know.
Write it up.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by ringo, posted 02-14-2007 2:42 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by ringo, posted 02-14-2007 6:01 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 55 (385219)
02-14-2007 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Dan Carroll
02-14-2007 2:05 PM


Re: Attitudinal responses
That's it exactly, NJ... a faux pas. The worry one has over coming out is exactly the same as the worry that somone will see you eat salad with the wrong fork.
Nowadays, precisely.
Good gravy. How do you live with such a capacity for empathy?
Just call me Ghandi or Mother Theresa.
The woman who started this thread recently outlined instances of violence against her and others for being gay, right here in this day and age. Perhaps you should read it.
Yeah, but most of us have experienced some sort of violence over our beliefs or even things we can't change-- like our race. We could all throw a pity party for something or other, right?
Oh, alright, I'll play along. I'm gonna go dress up in drag right now and when people ask me about Valentines Day, I won't divulge the sex of my "significant others."
Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful.......... in drag.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-14-2007 2:05 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-14-2007 7:13 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 55 (385362)
02-15-2007 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Jaderis
02-15-2007 4:28 AM


Coming out
Yes, there are an "extraordinarily larger amount" of straights than gays. That is why it is fairly easy for many gay people to "pass" and most of their friends and family members (except your grandmothers...they always know )will accept their deceptions.
Alright. Tell me a little about your own story. Have you come out of the closet, if so, how long did it take you to make that transition? Who in your life was very supportive and who was resistant?
The assumption that most anyone you talk to is heterosexual allows many gay people to dance around the subject of their sexuality with no one being the wiser. That does not mean it is easy on the dancer.
Some people are obviously more easy to spot out than others. Were/are you able to keep a level of anonymity with others?

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Jaderis, posted 02-15-2007 4:28 AM Jaderis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-15-2007 10:29 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 48 by Jaderis, posted 02-16-2007 10:11 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 55 (385391)
02-15-2007 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by macaroniandcheese
02-15-2007 10:29 AM


Re: Coming out
you keep asking people to discuss this stuff and it has nothing to do with the topic. it doesn't matter if ringo is a man or a lesbian or both. it matters that you refuse to see the purpose in bothering to experience the hardships of another.
Isn't me asking them what its like to be lesbians me attempting to understand how they feel?

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-15-2007 10:29 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by ringo, posted 02-15-2007 12:55 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 55 (385400)
02-15-2007 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by ringo
02-15-2007 12:55 PM


Re: Coming out
Asking, "How does that feel?" isn't the same as walking in somebody else's shoes. Stop being the salesman and try being the customer.
Then if I'm going to play this game, why not go all out? Why simply not allude to the sex of my wife when I could just be gay for a day? I could make topics surface that would imply that I'm gay and I could judge their body language and reactions. Sound good to you?
How's that for being the customer?

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by ringo, posted 02-15-2007 12:55 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by ringo, posted 02-15-2007 1:35 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 49 by Jaderis, posted 02-16-2007 10:17 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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