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Author Topic:   Conventionalism is Dead - Society does NOT determine what is moral.
joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 46 of 113 (385751)
02-16-2007 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by anglagard
02-16-2007 11:31 PM


Re: You still have not answered the question.
Its nice that you are taking a class in philosophy. In subsequent units will you be telling us that morality is God (Augustine), subjective (Spinoza), or the will to power (Nietzsche)?

That isn't philosophy.

You don't think, don't spread your disgusting disease around here please.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by anglagard, posted 02-16-2007 11:31 PM anglagard has responded

Replies to this message:
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 616 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 47 of 113 (385752)
02-16-2007 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by joshua221
02-16-2007 11:32 PM


is it more moral to kill two or one?

is one action (doing nothing) or the other (killing one, the son), more or less moral than the other?

that's the question.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by joshua221, posted 02-16-2007 11:32 PM joshua221 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by joshua221, posted 02-16-2007 11:39 PM kuresu has responded

    
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2185
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 48 of 113 (385754)
02-16-2007 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by joshua221
02-16-2007 11:30 PM


Re: Please Elaborate
prophyx writes:

I am not GOD.

No, but you are at least as repetitive.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Edited by AdminPD, : BooBoo


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joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 49 of 113 (385755)
02-16-2007 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by kuresu
02-16-2007 11:09 PM


Refer to my response to sidelined.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by kuresu, posted 02-16-2007 11:09 PM kuresu has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 50 of 113 (385756)
02-16-2007 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by kuresu
02-16-2007 11:35 PM


Refer to my reply to sidelined.

(Neither is moral.)


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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anglagard
Member
Posts: 2185
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 51 of 113 (385757)
02-16-2007 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by joshua221
02-16-2007 11:35 PM


Re: You still have not answered the question.
prophyx writes:

That isn't philosophy.

Define philosophy. Or better yet tell your instructor that you get to define who is a philosopher instead of him from now on.

You don't think, don't spread your disgusting disease around here please.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
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sidelined
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 113 (385758)
02-16-2007 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by joshua221
02-16-2007 11:32 PM


prophex

So then what do you consider to be moral exactly?


This message is a reply to:
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 616 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 53 of 113 (385759)
02-16-2007 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by joshua221
02-16-2007 11:39 PM


if no neither choice is moral (doing nothing or killing the son),

then why let two die when you can save a life?

remind me to put my life in your hands.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by joshua221, posted 02-16-2007 11:39 PM joshua221 has not yet responded

    
working out eating chips
Member (Idle past 1641 days)
Posts: 1623
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 54 of 113 (385760)
02-16-2007 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by anglagard
02-16-2007 11:31 PM


Re: You still have not answered the question.
A man that spent his life surrounded by books
was really interested in looks
was really interested in looks
I gave it my all, Dad
but I gave all I have
I don't have a fucked up face yet
this is where I turn my face I guess
you saw my profile
it's out there
it's on here

It doesn't bother me. I'm not offended. I have nothing to say here and I never did. I won't be posting here anymore. I'm going to ease myself off of the internet. Jar I really respect you; I have nothing against anyone here. This isn't the place for me. I better submit this quick before it seems like I took my time on it. You'll see me.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by anglagard, posted 02-16-2007 11:31 PM anglagard has not yet responded

  
alacrity fitzhugh
Member (Idle past 2392 days)
Posts: 194
Joined: 02-10-2004


Message 55 of 113 (385762)
02-16-2007 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by joshua221
02-16-2007 11:37 PM


prophex to kuresu writes:

Refer to my response to sidelined.Message 50

prophex writes:

I choose to do nothing. Message 21.

Doing nothing is still not moral. Hang your son one dies do nothing two die. No matter what your action or non action will cause death it is up to you on how many.


six(sic)six
This message is a reply to:
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RickJB
Member (Idle past 3094 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 56 of 113 (385782)
02-17-2007 3:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
02-16-2007 5:37 PM


It's cute how you explain who Socrates is for the benefit of those who haven't heard of him. :D

Anyway...

How do you account for the morality of war, in which the killing of an enemy (as opposed to a compatriot) is considered "just"? If both sides consider their cause to be "just" who is truly right?

If the idea that society determines what is moral is "pathetic", why do we see such behavior?


This message is a reply to:
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Doddy
Member (Idle past 4013 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 57 of 113 (385785)
02-17-2007 4:41 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by joshua221
02-16-2007 10:31 PM


I'm confused
prophex writes:

They are not educated. They live in ignorance and sometimes expound it for their own benefit.

Why should they need an education? You mean they need to learn their morals? I thought you said

prophex writes:

We are born with the ability to know what is right.


"Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer

Help inform the masses - contribute to the EvoWiki today!

This message is a reply to:
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Doddy
Member (Idle past 4013 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 58 of 113 (385786)
02-17-2007 4:52 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by joshua221
02-16-2007 10:54 PM


More confused
Prophex writes:

A dilemma such as this forces you to put a "value" on human life. Something that is extremely crude and lowly.

Firstly, are you referring to human life being crude and lowly, or moral dilemmas being crude and lowly?

Regardless, you seem to be asserting here that humans do not have an inherent value. But then before you said:

prophex writes:

It isn't just because humans each have a dignity that should not be violated. All humans are each unique and special, different.

to value: judge the worth of something

dignity: nobility or elevation of character; worthiness

Looks to me like you have already placed a value on human life.


"Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer

Help inform the masses - contribute to the EvoWiki today!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by joshua221, posted 02-16-2007 10:54 PM joshua221 has not yet responded

    
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 59 of 113 (385798)
02-17-2007 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by joshua221
02-16-2007 11:39 PM


Proper Responses
Prophex,

If you feel the need to refer someone back to a previous post, please provide the link so they can read the correct post.

Per the rules: Points should be supported with evidence and/or reasoned argumentation. Address rebuttals through the introduction of additional evidence or by enlarging upon the argument. Do not repeat previous points without further elaboration. Avoid bare assertions.

I don't see that you are enlarging upon your argument. You seem to be treading water.

If you have no more answers than what you have already written, then there is no need for this thread to remain open.

If this pattern of referring posters to previous answers and repeating answers continues, I will close this thread.

NOTE TO ALL PARTICIPANTS: Please argue the position and not the person.

Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.

Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout.

Thank you Purple


This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 12238
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 60 of 113 (385819)
02-17-2007 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
02-16-2007 5:37 PM


prophex writes:

Socrates in short believed, that justice was for each to "mind his own business" and do what each does best.

This post is probably a dishonor to Socrates and Plato, but I feel it is good enough for this purpose.

Hopefully it is clear that Conventionalism is dead.

Great post, by the way! :) I'm impressed, Charlie....

You always become fascinated with what you are learning in school and both you and your brother show this through your posts. I guess that my question to you is this: If society does not determine what is true, do you believe that truth is knowable? If so, what is the source of this truth...and...can it even be quantified as one particular absolute?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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