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Author
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Topic: The Flood
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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5942 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: 09-08-2003
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Uplift
nj writes: Secondly, I can't help but wonder why there are fossilized mollusks on top of virtually every mountain, even extremely tall mountains that are nowhere near any bodies of water. I've heard a lot of theories on that about plate shifts and subduction, but how is it that virtually ever single mountain was once near water in the distant past? That seems highly implausible to me. In a word.... Uplift. Check out the rock cycle. Just like the water cycle but a slightly different time cycle. BTW this is a very vexing problem for the "global flood" theory. Mollusks are mobility challenged. A global flood provides *no* explanation for the presence of marine fossils on mountain tops and benches like the North Rim of the Grand Canyon.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 40 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-09-2007 8:33 PM | | Hyroglyphx has not replied |
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iceage
Suspended Member (Idle past 5942 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: 09-08-2003
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Re: Uplift R Us
Whoa I always considered Taiwan a relatively flat island. There are peaks over 12000 ft!!!! and a central mountain range. Hey NJ any comments on mollusks on mountain tops? Edited by iceage, : No reason given.
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iceage
Suspended Member (Idle past 5942 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: 09-08-2003
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Re: Uplift R Us
From your description it sounds like the fundamentalist Christian groups in Taiwan have evolved beyond the original stock. Is this a demonstration biogeography???  I must confess my complete ignorance of Taiwan until you prompted me to investigate the interesting geology there. Yup, the island of Taiwan of refutes the whole notion of a global flood all by itself. Here in places you have km of limestone based rocks metamorphized and uplifted out of the ocean. This prompts several questions:
Just how the hell did all the limestone form as the result of a global flood? Even if the limestone is the result of geochemical reaction just how many km of solution would you need to form a several km thick precipitate? If the limestone is biogenic then the problem just became more improbable.
Just how long did it take for the mountains to uplift to the present towering condition? If you buy into to some tectonic overactive decades after the flood, you then have to explain the metamorphosis. I would more easily believe in the theory that God formed in situ to confuse and humble the wise. As a side note, either I have not been paying attention or the people of Taiwan have not done a good job promoting their country. I mean everyone has heard of Mt Fuji but few have heard of Jade Mountain. Hope to someday visit.
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iceage
Suspended Member (Idle past 5942 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: 09-08-2003
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Message 115 of 188 (385001)
02-13-2007 7:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 110 by Buzsaw
02-13-2007 12:50 PM
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Re: The Genesis Noahic Flood is a lie.
BuzSaw writes: Holy Spirit/Jesus transformation in your brain and soul Yep I think Jar needs to kidnapped and sent to the Jesus Boot Camp.
Buzsaw writes: via flood tectonics The interesting thing about tectonics is that there are some very convincing indelible marks that *strongly* suggests slooooooow movement. The best evidence of this is the record of magnetic reversals on the sea floor. As the sea floor spread the molten magma recorded the current earth polarity which changes periodically.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 110 by Buzsaw, posted 02-13-2007 12:50 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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iceage
Suspended Member (Idle past 5942 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: 09-08-2003
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Message 124 of 188 (385144)
02-14-2007 11:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 123 by PaulK
02-14-2007 10:59 AM
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Sea Floor Spreading
Buz just who is a fella to believe.... Your referenced source
nwcreation writes: When plates move away from one another, it causes a pulling apart such as along the middle of the ocean where volcanic rocks ooze out (rifts). These rocks have magnetic particles which lined up as the rock cooled. Some scientists claim that when a magnetic measuring device is dragged over the top of these rocks, it maps out a zebra-striped pattern, showing that the magnetic field or pull has reversed many times. They think this pattern shows very slow and gradual formation, hinting at an old earth. But when test holes are drilled downward next to these rifts, the neat pattern is not seen. Rather a haphazard pattern is found. Other evolutionary scientists say the striped pattern isn’t even there based upon their research. Some creation scientists say patterns could be produced due to activity during Noah’ s Flood. Versus the US Geological Survey... http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/developing.html
USGS writes: Additional evidence of seafloor spreading came from an unexpected source: petroleum exploration. In the years following World War II, continental oil reserves were being depleted rapidly and the search for offshore oil was on. To conduct offshore exploration, oil companies built ships equipped with a special drilling rig and the capacity to carry many kilometers of drill pipe. This basic idea later was adapted in constructing a research vessel, named the Glomar Challenger, designed specifically for marine geology studies, including the collection of drill-core samples from the deep ocean floor. In 1968, the vessel embarked on a year-long scientific expedition, criss-crossing the Mid-Atlantic Ridge between South America and Africa and drilling core samples at specific locations. When the ages of the samples were determined by paleontologic and isotopic dating studies, they provided the clinching evidence that proved the seafloor spreading hypothesis. When I have time I will research the papers behind this issue and find out who is right. {ABE} Sorry Paulk I inadvertently responded to your post, however BuzSaw was the intended recipient. Edited by iceage, : Replied to wrong post.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 123 by PaulK, posted 02-14-2007 10:59 AM | | PaulK has not replied |
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iceage
Suspended Member (Idle past 5942 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: 09-08-2003
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Message 125 of 188 (385147)
02-14-2007 11:18 AM
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top geophysicists in the world
One more point.
Buz's Reference NWcreation writes: Dr. John Baumgardner, a creationist who is also recognized as one of the top geophysicists in the world Is this true?
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iceage
Suspended Member (Idle past 5942 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: 09-08-2003
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Re: top geophysicists in the world
Joe thanks for info and links, I will spend some time studying it.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 131 by Joe Meert, posted 02-14-2007 4:55 PM | | Joe Meert has not replied |
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iceage
Suspended Member (Idle past 5942 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: 09-08-2003
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Message 179 of 188 (385542)
02-15-2007 10:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 178 by Coragyps
02-15-2007 10:35 PM
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Re: Shear Waves
I honestly don't know how one can be a YEC flood advocate and not be troll or a devil advocate. The good Geology threads around here go dark real quick. Sieging against evolution one can get some traction; but arguing against an old earth and universe requires a certain compartmentalization between what you want to believe and what is obvious from first-hand observable evidence.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 178 by Coragyps, posted 02-15-2007 10:35 PM | | Coragyps has not replied |
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iceage
Suspended Member (Idle past 5942 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: 09-08-2003
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Old Earth Evidences
Charley writes: but because of the lack of evidence here at EVC I don't see you debating but invoking increasing improbable explanations for evidence and avoiding the hard questions. Lack of evidence for old earth? You mean things like:
Varves with pollen layers at each striation.
Lava layers with ancient soils between flows. (i have sitting on desk here fossilized wood found between layers of Columbia plateau flows)
Angular unconformity's (my favorite as they can be observed directly and do not require much interpretation)
Ice cores data with correlated known volcanic events.
Huge (really huge) deposits of microfossils (limestone,diotomaceous chert, chalk)
Huge deposits of sand. (sand is the result of weathering and working of formally solid formations, requiring long long times to form and accumulate)
Fossil separation or sorting (eg. dinosaurs never mix with large mammals, Ichthyosaurs never mix with whales, etc).
Overthrust formations
River meanders (especially those incised thru solid rock)
Large and extensive river potholes (many of these exist where I live)
Ice age formations and evidence requiring long time (at least from a YEC perspective) to develop and form. I live next to a lake that was gouged below sea level via the last ice age.)
Independent dating correlations
Large granitic batholyths intruded into sedimentary formations.
Complex surface geology worldwide To explain these via a YEC model require improbable if not supernatural explanations. The above are not only good counter arguments to YEC but are falsification observations. The above are like finding primate bones within the ribcage of a carnivorous dinosaur or finding a stone point stuck in the bone of dinosaur as means to discredit current understanding of old earth. . Edited by iceage, : Made subtitle more appropriate.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 181 by johnfolton, posted 02-17-2007 5:18 AM | | johnfolton has not replied |
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