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Author Topic:   What's the beef with the ACLU?
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 53 of 199 (383498)
02-08-2007 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Hyroglyphx
02-08-2007 12:24 PM


Re: The ACLU
So you are not upset when the rights of criminals are infringed?
Personally, I do get upset and I am glad there are orginizations out there that work to protect the rights of everyone including criminals.
Taking the roadblock case for example, the method the state used to conduct its operation was in disagreement with the 4th ammendment. Period. Aren't you happy that Indiana can no longer abridge the 4th ammendment rights of its citizens?
What if poliece starting going randomly door to door with drug sniffing dogs, knocked on your door to see if you were high, and bust into your house just because Officer Fido barked at one of your wife's lillies?
Who would you call to make they couldn't do that? Or do you not care as long as it occasionally turned up a house where someone had drugs 9% of the time?
Personally, I would call the ACLU.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-08-2007 12:24 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 57 of 199 (383511)
02-08-2007 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Hyroglyphx
02-07-2007 12:58 PM


The ACLU and Oregon Boy's Basketball
I would like to clear up this fact:
For instance, the ACLU of Oregon recently took on a case against a Christian school. Apparently, this private school observes the Sabbath. Long story short, their basketball team did very well and were scheduled to go to the championships. The school said that if the championship was to be played, they would have to schedule it on a day other than the Sabbath. A few students protested that reached the ears of the players. Naturally, the ACLU jumped all over it.
Page not found | ACLU of Oregon
The ACLU was actually DEFENDING the christian school against discrimination based on their religious beliefs.
From the link:
June 27, 2005 - Should a basketball team from a religious school be required to violate church doctrine and play on the Sabbath or forfeit being part of the state tournament? The ACLU of Oregon doesn't think so and is representing players on the Portland Adventist Academy boys basketball team urging the Court to require reasonable accommodation of the players' religious tenets.
You seem to have a nasty habit of inventing facts just like in the GD thread. This one is particularly funny because you got it totally opposite.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 58 of 199 (383515)
02-08-2007 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by crashfrog
02-08-2007 1:13 PM


Re: The ACLU
You have to have it spelled out? The private school is infringing on all the other schools who would have to reschedule the championship simply because the players from that school demanded special consideration for their religions faith.
...
That's fine. They don't have the right to demand others make concessions to their beliefs.
You got this backwards, probably no fault of your own. The ACLU was defending the 7th Day Adventist school.
The issue is that the basketball organization is public and even though the team from the private school plays in that league they are not excluded from any of the other standard regulations applied by that league. The argument was that because the league is public that they should be required to take reasonable measure to accomidate the religious beliefs of the team from the private school.
I am not sure where I fall on this. I dont think given that there are only 2 days for which a tournament could be played both of which are claimed by different religions as sabbath that the league could make a reasonable concession to accomidate the SDA team. Maybe there are more details that I am missing though.
The funny thing is though is that this is an example of the ACLU defending a religious institution even under not so clear cut lines of civil liberties. I think it actually takes more effort to support the school in this case.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by crashfrog, posted 02-08-2007 1:13 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 63 of 199 (383541)
02-08-2007 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Hyroglyphx
02-08-2007 2:13 PM


Re: The ACLU
The ACLU does not just pick up cases for heinous crimes. They specifically only accept cases that deal with issues surrounding Constitutional law.
It just so happens that cases that test our Constitutional fervor may often go against our morals.
It is easy to say that you disagree with what I say yet would fight to the death to defend my right to say it. It is much harder to DO just that in the face of someone who says something grotesque such as NAMBLA.
I like the fact that the ACLU does not compromise on the issue of Constitutionality. They will get their hands dirtier than dirt to fight for everyones basic rights even if you dont like who they defend.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-08-2007 2:13 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Chiroptera, posted 02-08-2007 2:55 PM Jazzns has not replied
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 79 of 199 (383644)
02-08-2007 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by crashfrog
02-08-2007 5:49 PM


Re: The ACLU
Pretty much:
Radical Islam is something I hate.
Radical Liberalism is somethign I hate.
Radical Liberals don't hate Radical Islam the same way I do.
Radical Islam = Radical Liberals.
QED

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by crashfrog, posted 02-08-2007 5:49 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by kuresu, posted 02-08-2007 5:58 PM Jazzns has replied
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 82 of 199 (383658)
02-08-2007 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by kuresu
02-08-2007 5:58 PM


Re: The ACLU
doesn't make it any more valid. You could plug in libertarians and cucumbers into that equation and it would be just as silly.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by kuresu, posted 02-08-2007 5:58 PM kuresu has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 98 of 199 (383879)
02-09-2007 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by subbie
02-09-2007 11:38 AM


Re: nemesis brings up the Wrenn Cross for the usual reasons.
Yea, I doubt NJ is making this stuff up but rather trusting in sources that make this stuff up. The link I posted to point out that the SDA boys basketball case was backwards was the first link in a Google search of "ACLU Oregon Basketball".
Honestly, I think that all NJ needs to be a better debater is some better reference searching skills and a desire to look at more than just the first source he finds for something.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by subbie, posted 02-09-2007 11:38 AM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 187 of 199 (386234)
02-20-2007 1:16 PM


NJ makes it onto FSTDT.
It totally was not me I swear it. I have never nominated anyone to FSTDT and even if I did I would have a heck of a lot better things to choose than a rant about the ACLU.
I just wanted to post this here as an FYI.
nemesis juggernaut #fundie

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

Replies to this message:
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