A call to all prayer warriors

I can't prove a negative.However, since you are the opne saying it does work, you are the one who has to show me the evidence that it does.Your personal belief or testimony does not constitute evidence.The thing is, prayer DOES work in certain cases.When ill people know they are being thought about and prayed for, they tend to recover more quickly than similar people who are not.However, this isn't evidence for anything supernatural. This is evidence that people who feel cared for and supported have a better emotional state, and therefore have smaller amounts of fear and stress hormones running through their bodies, and therefore have healthier immune systems.(the interesting control groups are those who are prayed for but don't know it. They do no better than unsupported, unprayed-for people)What I don't buy is someone like you saying, "Prayer works, and you should believe me because I say so."What would you think if I told you, "I pray to the Great Galactic Goat, and it works because I know it does."Would you believe me? Why or why not?[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 05-01-2003]

You must pull the log out of your own eye before you pull the splinter out of mine. How could you be so arrogant to insist that prayer is not answered. Are you all knowing? Quite a claim from from someone who's ancestors were apes.[This message has been edited by Majorsmiley, 05-01-2003]

Yours too, my friend. I assume you are, after all, human?The simple fact is, there's significant research into the phenomenon of why people believe prayer works. It's the same reason people believe in luck, superstition, and all kinds of other stuff. It's pretty simple, really - when you pray and it works, you remember it. When you pray and it doesn't, you forget about it. As a result, it appears to you that prayer works almost every time.Do you believe that every prayer to every god is granted? If not, what so special about your prayers and your god?

I thought we still are apes, albeit of a slightly more vertical nature......

I think apes are a different genus. Technically, we're primates, I think... but no longer apes. Though looking at my dad's back, you wouldn't be so sure...Sorry, too much information.

The apes are of different genuses (geni is probably more correct). And are different from each other Gorilla is a genus as well as one of the species. Pan is for the two species of chimps.Jarad Diamond has suggested that if we were to look at it dispassionately or by genetic differences we would include Gorilla, chimp, orang in genus Homo but I think that is streching it too far.

So somebody wants to start a prayer circle and is called "arrogant" and jeered by several participants?Religious intolerance is alive and well here and is in fact perpetuated by the majority of users. I see that abuse is now the norm.And by the way, I'm an evolutionist.[This message has been edited by gene90, 05-01-2003]

I don't have a problem with religion. I do have a problem with people who confuse religious belief with testable fact, and then act like theirs are the only facts that matter.I'm all about religious tolerance. But I don't particularly care to tolerate evangelicals.Did it occur to you that if people are willing to make claims about the effaciousness of their beliefs, then it's perfectly reasonable to expect evidence for those claims?(Added by edit: Sorry, this was a little hasty. I should add that it is only really arrogant evangelicals that I find disagreeable, and that none of the people of faith here strike me as the extremely arrogant type. To the contrary, in fact.)[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 05-01-2003]

Read Matthew 5:10-11And by the way, I'm a creationist.

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So somebody wants to start a prayer circle and is called "arrogant" and jeered by several participants?

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This topic certainly did get badly bent off the intended path.Budikka is currently under indefinite suspension, by Admin (Percy).Gene, do you think the topic should be closed down?
I'll pass this decision off to you and/or to AdminPamboli.Adminnemooseus

I think it has to close.Partly the problem was that the opening post wasn't really a call for discussion but it was posted on a vigorous discussion board. Might as well have smothered it in gravy and thrown it in the dog pound!By all means let's have a thread about prayer if anyone wants one.