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Author | Topic: An Astrology Discussion | |||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Well, if it was just you able to do it, it doesn't mean anything. If 200 people could do it more accurately than chance would predict, then that would be interesting. And, let's not forget that you said that the descriptions weren't 100% accurate. Well, how inaccurate were they? I mean, I think that almost everybody can exhibit many, many personality traits. And we'd have to get quite specific and quantifiable with the descriptions for them to mean much, as well. And, what about people in different stages of life, before or after therapy, or even brain injury? I mean, I have a much different personality in many ways now than when I was 18.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes: I mean, who does like being pressured to take part in a conversation that they don't understand or don't care about? My point was (and I do so love having to explain what my point was ) that I don't have to be pressured to shoot my mouth off when I don't know what I'm talking about. My point was that astrology was completely out to lunch on that point. My point was that "too general" is no excuse when astrology's prediction is diametrically opposed to reality.
The book I was reading from was better than that. I wish I had it with me and could scan some pages into this thread. Here's a better idea: You can find my birthdate in my profile. Use all the resources you can muster and decide what my personality "should" be, horoscopically. Then our loyal readers, who know me so well, can decide whether or not it's accurate. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
My point was (and I do so love having to explain what my point was ) that I don't have to be pressured to shoot my mouth off when I don't know what I'm talking about. My point was that astrology was completely out to lunch on that point. My point was that "too general" is no excuse when astrology's prediction is diametrically opposed to reality. Well, if I read a bunch of people's personality descriptions that were accurate and then one that was totally wrong, I wouldn't consider that exception to invalidate all the correct ones.
Here's a better idea: You can find my birthdate in my profile. Use all the resources you can muster and decide what my personality "should" be, horoscopically. Then our loyal readers, who know me so well, can decide whether or not it's accurate.
ok. Whoa, you're old...
quote: Its pretty hit or miss for you. But, then again, I wouldn't consider this one a very good description. It seems pretty general and I don't really like the one-word descriptions. Maybe the descriptions don't work for everyone and that they are just a general trend for people's personalities. Also, there could be other factors that determine your personality that could outweight the affects of the time of year you were born in. But now I'm defending Astrology I don't really think its real, I just think that there seems to be some correlation with your personality and the time of year you were born. If that were true, it would make astrology look better even if astrology was all bullshit.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Well, if it was just you able to do it, it doesn't mean anything. It wouldn't be me, it would be the descriptions I was reading from.
Well, how inaccurate were they? I mean, I think that almost everybody can exhibit many, many personality traits. And we'd have to get quite specific and quantifiable with the descriptions for them to mean much, as well. And, what about people in different stages of life, before or after therapy, or even brain injury? I mean, I have a much different personality in many ways now than when I was 18.
Damn, you'd really be getting down to the gnat's ass... Perhaps there is an affect of the time of the year you were born on your personality. Big life changes could certainly outweight the affects from the time of year, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. I don't think we have the means to get down to the gnat's ass, scientifically, about the effects. Its something people have been looking into for thousands of years and there seems to be some correlation. Whether or not astrology is accurate in the cause, I don't know (but leaning towards not), but if the effect is there, I'd like to discuss some possibilities for the cuase.
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nator Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Well, if it was just you able to do it, it doesn't mean anything. quote: But it's people who have to decide how the descriptions of the personality traits manifest in the people they supposedly know, and also decide if they are accurate or not.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
From your own source:
LIKESHobbies - nope Romance - nope Children - yup Home and Country - yup and *shrug* Parties - hate 'em Not much of a batting average. And note that Ross Perot and Captain Kangaroo share my birthdate. (ABE: Make that "birthday", I guess.) I just think that there seems to be some correlation with your personality and the time of year you were born. It doesn't seem so to me. There are so many factors that can effect out personalities: where we are born, the climate, the culture; our family environment and history. If when we were born had any effect at all, it would likely be drowned out by the other factors. Edited by Ringo, : Added extra pedantry. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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anglagard Member (Idle past 863 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes: Astrology attributes it to extraterrestrial activity, you know, planets n’stuff. That seems paranormal to me. How could something extraterrestrial affect your personality? Because of its gravity? It can't be due to gravity because such forces are incredibly insignificant. This is because the force of gravity is equal to the mass of each object (m1, m2) times the universal gravitational constant (y)and the unit vector directed from m1 to m2 (r1) divided by the radius between m1 and m2 squared. F=-y(m1)(m2)r1/(r)(r) Obviously the distance to a planet, be it Mars or Pluto (is Pluto still a planet?, has Sedna moved into the house of Gemini?) is so great, dividing any number by the square of distance is going to make F ridiculously small. Particularly since the gravitational constant (= 6.67300 10-11 m3 kg-1 s-2) is also very small. Way back in 1979, I was introduced to gravitational methods in geophysics. According to this science the only measurable gravitational influences at any point on the surface of the Earth are due to latitude, topography, elevation, Earth tides, and variations in subsurface density. Earth tides are of course due to the moon and sun, the moon because it is much closer and the sun because it is so much more massive. Have you ever seen a tide chart that factored in any planets? Therefore if any effect on humans were due to gravity, one would need a chart that also factored in latitude, topography, elevation, and subsurface density. It would take a geophysicist just to plot your astrological chart! Of course, I have never met a geophysicist that believed in astrology so one may have to get Baumgardner or channel Morris to get an accurate reading as they seem to be (or were) game for supporting any anti-scientific cult behavior. Edited by anglagard, : Eek, astronomical replaced by astrological chart, lucky im still alive
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AnswersInGenitals Member (Idle past 177 days) Posts: 673 Joined: |
Assuming that the time of year that you are born in has some affect on how you turn out, what do you think causes it? Is there any scientific explanation we could come up with that could explain the phenomenon? Or is the scientific view that there is no affect at all? Perhaps the causation goes the other way. Personality traits are to some extent inherited. Perhaps fecundity and/or sex drive are somewhat seasonal. Then mating pairs of Homo sapiens (is this terminology getting you a little excited?) will tend to have offspring in certain months and pass on to them certain personality traits giving a zodiacal vs. personality trait correlation. As mentioned, one possible test for this would be Northern vs. Southern hemisphere comparisons. The biggest problem with all this is that determinations of personality are very subjective: have several friends write a description of what they think your personality characteristics are and include your own description and I suspect you will find a great diversity of opinion (and you might also find you have fewer friends than you thought). There are 'scientific' personality profile questionnaires, but I personally would have about as much faith in those as I have in astrology.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
So what happens now that Pluto isn't a planet anymore? I doubt that it would matter in astrology. The Sun and Moon are also refered to as "planets" in that system. Sounds like a question for the astrology newsgroup. I would guess that there is one. PSOops! Had I said ten components? Make that eleven. I forgot about the ascendent. Edited by dwise1, : PS
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
It can't be due to gravity because such forces are incredibly insignificant. Agreed, and I'm aware of how incredible that insignificance is (many many orders of magnitutude).
Have you ever seen a tide chart that factored in any planets? Nope. (Although, admittedly, I've never seen a tide chart) Therefore if any effect on humans were due to gravity, one would need a chart that also factored in latitude, topography, elevation, and subsurface density. It would take a geophysicist just to plot your astrological chart I wonder what effects can be had when there are multiple plantet alignments, we could calculate the force of gravity from the alignment, which would most likely still be insignificant. I think that the astrologists think that there is something magical going on up there that is causing it all. My question on gravity was somewhat rhetorical with a touch of sarcastic. For future reference, I'm well aware of gravity's formula, but thanks anyways for being so helpfull and informative.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Quo vadis, causation? Yes. I think there IS is some correlation that astrology has picked up on, I just don't think that its{astrology's} causes are the actual ones.
Personality traits are to some extent inherited. For sure. I'm bascally a male version of my mother, WRT personality.
Perhaps fecundity and/or sex drive are somewhat seasonal. Then mating pairs of Homo sapiens will tend to have offspring in certain months and pass on to them certain personality traits giving a zodiacal vs. personality trait correlation. Hmmmm, perhaps.... This is more the kind of discussion I was looking for. I don't believe astrology has it right, but there does seem to be some correlation
biggest problem with all this is that determinations of personality are very subjective But there are some personality traits that people could be said to poses or not.
There are 'scientific' personality profile questionnaires, but I personally would have about as much faith in those as I have in astrology.. Really!?, Why is that? I took an online personality profile and the results were really good. Actually, I think I learned some stuff about myself.
have several friends write a description of what they think your personality characteristics are and include your own description and I suspect you will find a great diversity of opinion (and you might also find you have fewer friends than you thought). Well, 'friends' or Friends. I mean, my true friends know me well and I think they'd have similiar opinions (that I'm an asshole ), but aquaintances, sure, there'd be diferences but that'd be because they don't know me well enough. As far as my actual personality, aside from other people's subjectivity on it, I'd say its pretty objective.
(is this terminology getting you a little excited?) Nah, I'm fairly well fucked. Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1493 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
(Although, admittedly, I've never seen a tide chart) Here's one!
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.maineharbors.com/marhar07.htm
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nyenye Inactive Member |
hmmm why haven't I seen this thread? Owell... Well, I love astrology.. I often document people and their personalities and remember their sign... It's kind of like my own experiment. I believe in signs, I am a taurus... My rising sign is Cancer, and my moon sign is libra... it all goes by the time, date and year you were born... very detailed and interesting if you get deep in to it. I guess I have to keep documenting and write a book someday on my own personal experiences... I find it often interesting how some people, and their signs can only portray the negative aspects of their sign... Maybe it's because if you have a fire moon and water rising... it's like a battle within! haha
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DorfMan Member (Idle past 6107 days) Posts: 282 From: New York Joined: |
forbidden in scripture. A man should consult his God, not wizards that peep or signs in the sky. You either believe that, or you don't.
quote: The link is clarifying. Consulting the stars is willingness to be deceived.
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DorfMan Member (Idle past 6107 days) Posts: 282 From: New York Joined: |
quote: I should have read this first. Could have saved myself some time. But then, you never know, eh?
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