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Author Topic:   Standing Alone: the Great Pyramid
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 31 of 77 (387197)
02-26-2007 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Cold Foreign Object
02-26-2007 5:57 PM


Re: Who built the pyramids?
The rest of the Great Pyramid had zero writings on any of its interior walls or passages or chamber walls.
Again, how does a person explain this compared to all the other pyramids WHICH ARE COVERED WITH WRITINGS?
Not writing stuff is not evidence of an ultra-intellect. Anyone can not write hieroglyphics.
How did persons in 12,000 to 2,500 BC, that is persons who just emerged from the so called Stone Age build the Seventh Wonder of the World?
How? Out of stone.
They had not "just" emerged from the Stone Age; the pyramids were built a thousand years after the dawn of the Bronze Age. You might as well say that Europe is "just emerging" from the Black Death.
You can't have "cave men" and their immediate relatives suddenly building a world wonder as evolution says.
Obviously, "evolution" does not say that. Archaelogy, on the other hand, tells us that the pyramids were built by a civilized, literate people who'd been using metal for the past thousand years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-26-2007 5:57 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 32 of 77 (387198)
02-26-2007 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Cold Foreign Object
02-26-2007 5:57 PM


Re: Who built the pyramids?
When we assign a pyramid inch to equal one year and measure the number of inches from point #5, that is, from the benchmark date of 2141 BC the length between that date and the opening of the first ascending passage comes out to 1453 BC. Biblical scholars have always said that the Exodus, according to Biblical chronology occurred around 1446 BC. But the evidence here says it happened in 1453 BC. The GP tells us the true date because of how it was determined, in any case the mid-15th century is CONFIRMED.
So let's see if I've got this right: if you adjust the chronology of the Bible to fit the dimensions of the great Pyramid, you find the the chronology of the Bible then fits the dimensions of the Pyramid.
Now that's just spooky. Color me convinced.
The GP is physical evidence of the God of the Bible; didn't know any of this?
How could you since atheists and Darwinists "control" the world?
Well, someone's got to do it; and we're not convinced that it would be safe in your hands.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-26-2007 5:57 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 77 (387206)
02-27-2007 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Cold Foreign Object
02-26-2007 5:57 PM


Re: Who built the pyramids?
The only "exception" is SCANT writing above the King's Chamber. This "writing" has been proven a forgery.
Do you literally mean a "forgery" or do you mean a "later insertion" of the inscription?
The rest of the Great Pyramid had zero writings on any of its interior walls or passages or chamber walls.
Again, how does a person explain this compared to all the other pyramids WHICH ARE COVERED WITH WRITINGS?
I would agree that its very interesting, but this alone is only circumstantial evidence.
Josephus SAID that Sethites left two monuments; one made of brick (not in existence anymore) and the other made of stone in the land of Siriad. The latter is referring to the GP.
Josephus was not talking about bas-reliefs or inscriptions per se, he was talking about structures. Josephus is good evidence for the real builders of the GP. The GP existed before Egyptian civilization was founded.
Let me make certain that I am understanding you thus far. You are saying that Sethites erected two monuments as Josephus described, in Egypt, as described, and basically that the Egyptians had nothing to do with the design of the pyramids-- that Egyptians modeled their pyramids after the GP...? Am I understanding you correctly thus far?
If so, I have one question about that. Seth was the direct progeny of Adam and Eve. The line of Abel was wiped out and the Canaanites were basically banished. That leaves Seth and his wife to procreate. Naturally, if they lived upwards of 900 years, that is a lot of potential offspring, but is that enough to build the Great Pyramid? We still aren't entirely certain of how they physically created this architectural feat, nor has it been recreated using no industrial machinery. Therefore, were there even enough people alive on earth, let alone in Egypt, to create such a monolith?
quote:
you say that it must have been built by ultra-intelligent descendants of Adam. For starters, every one is a descendant of Adam
Not according the evolutionists. They believe Adam never existed and that mankind descended from an ape ancestor.
Well, that's silly, even from an evolutionist point of view. Mitochondral DNA unambiguously proves that we indeed derive from one female. Why should they assume that was any different for Adam? Whether or not they believe in the Biblical version of the first man and first woman is inconsequential when the concept of Adam and Eve is all that is necessary.
How did persons in 12,000 to 2,500 BC, that is persons who just emerged from the so called Stone Age build the Seventh Wonder of the World?
Oh, believe me. I bring this up all the time to no avail. Its as if civilization just poofed in to existence with technology, a writing system, a code of law, etc. Perhaps because in some way they did appear abruptly which would discredit the evolutionary paradigm. It would be very hard to believe that 7,000 years ago that early man was grunting like an idiot and all of a sudden he was inspired and was mysteriously bestowed the ability of superior intellect only a few hundred years later.
Based on what Josephus said and based on the Egyptian Book of the Dead calling the GP "the pillar of Enoch"; and based on other massive evidence we know the GP was built by Enoch.
I'll have to read this some time. I must admit that I am very intrigued. I am going to reference the Dead Sea Scrolls tomorrow on the subject and see if it makes mention of it because if I recall, in the Book of Giants it lists a discourse on the life of Enoch.
These two points correspond to the long descending passage; and they typify mankinds descent into the pit (hell) under the influence of Satan. When we extend the passage out into space it directly intersects with the Dragon Star also known as Thuban. THIS star WAS the North Star WHEN the GP was built and it is the only north star which aligns to the passage way.
Okay, you lost me here. "When we extend the passage out into space it directly interesects with the Dragon Star also known as Thuban?" This sounds like some Art Bell stuff. What do you mean by extending the passage out into space that it could intersect with the North Star?
Go back and acquaint yourself with the first ascending passage. We know it is a narrow passage that a person MUST bend over in order to ascend. This upward climb while stooped over corresponds to mankind's ascent under the rigors of Mosaic Law.
I'm going to have to familiarize myself with all of this before I can truly formulate an opinion.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by kuresu, posted 02-27-2007 12:26 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 35 by Jon, posted 02-27-2007 2:16 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 37 by DrJones*, posted 02-27-2007 2:05 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 34 of 77 (387207)
02-27-2007 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Hyroglyphx
02-27-2007 12:23 AM


Re: Who built the pyramids?
basically that the Egyptians had nothing to do with the design of the pyramids-- that Egyptians modeled their pyramids after the GP...?
don't forget, the GP is not the first pyramid. There were several built before the GP.
that's the biggest flaw in Herepton's argument, and one that I addressed and that he has yet to respond to.

"Have the Courage to Know!" --Immanuel Kant
" . . .and some nights I just pray to the god of sex and drugs and rock'n'roll"--meatloaf
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This message is a reply to:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 77 (387211)
02-27-2007 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Hyroglyphx
02-27-2007 12:23 AM


Re: Who built the pyramids?
Mitochondral DNA unambiguously proves that we indeed derive from one female.
MtDNA evidence says no such thing; unless you believe that human populations were steady, i.e, neither declining or increasing, throughout the world even at their onset.
...nor has it been recreated using no industrial machinery.
That's not saying anything at all! Perhaps they no longer possess the ability to reproduce the White House... after all, they have yet to do so.
These two points correspond to the long descending passage; and they typify mankinds descent into the pit (hell) under the influence of Satan. When we extend the passage out into space it directly intersects with the Dragon Star also known as Thuban. THIS star WAS the North Star WHEN the GP was built and it is the only north star which aligns to the passage way.
Okay, you lost me here. "When we extend the passage out into space it directly interesects with the Dragon Star also known as Thuban?" This sounds like some Art Bell stuff. What do you mean by extending the passage out into space that it could intersect with the North Star?
I'm not sure exactly where you two are going with this, but the descending shaft in the pyramid does lead directly to the North Star. But this is nothing new, and--had the King been buried in the lowest chamber--it would've served the same function as it did in other pyramids: to send the Pharaoh's body to the North Star, which was seen as indestructible to the Egyptians.
Max

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-27-2007 12:23 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Jon
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 77 (387212)
02-27-2007 2:38 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Cold Foreign Object
02-26-2007 5:57 PM


Re: Who built the pyramids?
Thus far, these two points alone support my contention that the GP was not built by Egyptian intellect - do you agree?
The Egyptians were not swamp monkeys! They knew very well how to build ascending passages, and not writing wouldn't 've been as big a problem as you seem to think. It does not require super intellect to make a decision between up and down, and it certainly does not require super intellect to not write.
How did persons in 12,000 to 2,500 BC, that is persons who just emerged from the so called Stone Age build the Seventh Wonder of the World?
The span you give here is about 10,000 years. This is certainly enough time for civilization to develop. Why do you believe that we can go from Roman Gladiator to the moon in 2000 years, but can't go from caves to pyramids in 10,000?
Based on what Josephus said and based on the Egyptian Book of the Dead calling the GP "the pillar of Enoch"
I'd like you to point this out to me. And then, I'd like you to explain what the Book of the Dead is, as I think you are completely full of shit and in no way understanding the Book of the Dead, or what it is for.
2. The first attempt by God to save mankind from this downward path was the revelation of Mosaic Law; typified by deliverance from Egypt; miracle of the Red Sea parting.
God's first attempt to "save" mankind was to kill off everyone he didn't like and leave only the ones he did, or do you see a different reason for the Flood than what's given in the Good Book?
Only the GP sits in the middle of the Nile-Delta quadrant, which is ***ALSO*** the border between Upper and Lower Egypt.
You do know that RIGHT NEXT to the Great Pyramid there are two other "great" pyramids, the Sphinx, several smaller pyramids, and mastabas galore? The Great Pyramid is not alone, rather it is only one of the larger tombstones in a monumentally large cemetery.
Find point #4 on the descending passage. This point marks "scored lines" engraved into the passage wall counter to the grain of the masonry. This told archaeologists that the builder wanted to mark something since the lines could have no other meaning. When we extend these lines out into space they intersect with the Pleiades and Orion mentioned in the book of Job.
Scholars then wondered; WHEN did Thuban and Orion intersect with their respective markings in the GP?
British astronomical authorities have determined that ONLY IN 2141 BC did Thuban perfectly align with the descending passage and Orion align with the scored lines; therefore, scholars concluded that point #4 = 2141 BC.
2141 BC becomes a benchmark date. We are not saying anything significant happened on this date; rather we are saying that this date becomes the starting point of a prophetic chronology.
Rubbish. If we hunted out other lines and found out when they aligned with a particular star, we'd end up with completely different dates. Now, I know you're a little crazy, but please don't go all Graham Hancock on us!
Isaiah 19:19,20
In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.
And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.
Only the GP sits in the middle of the Nile-Delta quadrant, which is ***ALSO*** the border between Upper and Lower Egypt.
How do you know this passage refers to the border between Upper and Lower Egypt? After all, the words do say "Egypt," leaving out any mention of Upper or Lower. At the time this passage was written, Egypt could've well extended into moder-day Israel. This "pillar" you are talking about could be as far from Egypt as the forests of Lebanon.
Max

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 40 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-27-2007 3:26 PM Jon has replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 37 of 77 (387274)
02-27-2007 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Hyroglyphx
02-27-2007 12:23 AM


Re: Who built the pyramids?
Mitochondral DNA unambiguously proves that we indeed derive from one female
Just to clarify the MtDNA issue. It shows that all current humans share a female ancestor, it does not say that all humans that ever lived share her. It also does not mean that she was once the only female human on the planet. Other MtDNA lines may have existed and died out.

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-27-2007 12:23 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 38 of 77 (387275)
02-27-2007 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Jon
02-27-2007 2:38 AM


Re: Who built the pyramids?
Why do you believe that we can go from Roman Gladiator to the moon in 2000 years,
we still have the roman gladiator. what do you think those massive stadiums are where people beat each other senseless (football, hockey, boxing, wrestling, rugby, soccer, baseball, NASCAR, etc)?
some things never change.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Jon, posted 02-27-2007 2:38 AM Jon has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 39 of 77 (387279)
02-27-2007 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by kuresu
02-23-2007 9:58 PM


Re: A timeline
your first link is for pyramids built at the same time, and gives no indication of timeline.
the second link has the same problems.
Negative.
Both links were posted to show the interiors of the pyramids; that the interior of the GP has no similarities to any other. Its not a matter of opinion. I then ask: How do we explain this fact?
Timeline is irrelevant in this context SINCE we are only attempting to explain why the GP has extensive passages and all the rest have NONE.
Logically, we say that this evidence supports the claim that the GP was not built by Egyptians (unlike all the others). The Suez Canal was built by the British even though it is in Egypt.
finally, as to losing and gaining technology:
this seems to happen many times in history. one need only look at europe and see how much has been lost from the classical era (greek and roman empires) to the medieval ages to now. we lost a lot of technical know-how from the classical to the medieval ages. since about the 1400s (and even more so during the 1600s onward) we've recovered and advanced.
Excellent point which I agree with.
The builders of the GP knew that the Earth was round; Medieval Europe believed the Earth was flat.
IOW, ancient men were ultra-intelligent which supports the Biblical claim that mankind was created intelligent; and falisfies the evolutionary claim that man steadily progressed from an ape into a cave man and then into an ancient and then into modern man.
Intelligence and knowledge undulation falsifies the myth of human evolution.
Any open minded and objective investigation of the GP must conclude human evolution to be exactly what it is: the atheist creation myth.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 43 by kuresu, posted 02-27-2007 4:28 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 46 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-27-2007 7:08 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 40 of 77 (387281)
02-27-2007 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Jon
02-27-2007 2:38 AM


Re: Who built the pyramids?
The Egyptians were not swamp monkeys! They knew very well how to build ascending passages....
Then how come only the GP has them? How come not even one other pyramid has an ascending passage?
The real question is why are you evading this question? It appears you cannot refute. It also appears you are completely ignorant about archaeology and the ANE. I expect participants to know their place here.
The span you give here is about 10,000 years. This is certainly enough time for civilization to develop. Why do you believe that we can go from Roman Gladiator to the moon in 2000 years, but can't go from caves to pyramids in 10,000?
The span I gave is the range that scholars believe the GP was built. If we take the high (10,000 BC) then this places the erection squarely in the Stone Age!
The builders of the GP knew the Earth was round; ancient Egypt believed the Earth was flat; that Ra evolved around a flat Earth. The builders of the GP knew THE EXACT polar diameter of the Earth; modern man did not know the exact figure until 1957 Sputnik artificial orbiting satellite measured the Earth = human evolution is falsified.
I'd like you to point this out to me. And then, I'd like you to explain what the Book of the Dead is, as I think you are completely full of shit and in no way understanding the Book of the Dead, or what it is for.
Like I said; if you are ignorant about basic stuff like the Egyptian Book of the Dead then you should not participate. As for your invective we know that this is what persons say who are angered by the evidence and cannot refute.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Jon, posted 02-27-2007 2:38 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by PaulK, posted 02-27-2007 6:28 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 41 of 77 (387285)
02-27-2007 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Cold Foreign Object
02-27-2007 3:09 PM


Re: A timeline
ancient men were ultra-intelligent
Then where are the ancient airplanes, spaceships, automobiles, skyscrapers, internet, computers, vaccines, satellites, lasers, microwaves, televisions, scanning electron microscopes, submarines, subways, channel tunnels, MRIs, nuclear reactors, etc...?
failure to produce examples = inability to refute
Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.
Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-27-2007 3:09 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 150 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 42 of 77 (387289)
02-27-2007 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Cold Foreign Object
02-27-2007 3:09 PM


Suez Canal = god's divine creation.
The Suez Canal was built by the British even though it is in Egypt.
Wrong! Provably and demonstrably wrong! If you lay a hollow bamboo stick in the dead center of the Suez canal and sight through it, you will find that you are staring straight at ALPHA CENTAURI!!! Yes, you will be looking at the star that is closest to earth, symbolizing god's closeness to redeemed mankind. How could the ignorant British have known which star was the closest to the earth? And how could a mere mortal know to name the star for the first, the headmost, the beginning one who created all else?
The canal is a narrow track of water joining two large bodies of water, showing that the way from corrupt and sinful earth to the glories of heaven is straight and narrow, but (and this is perhaps the most meaningful message in god's canal creation) it flows BOTH WAYS!!! God can cast down the errant angels as easily as he draws the repentant sinner up onto his bosom.
If you examine the Panama canal or the great canal joining the Huang Ho and the Yangse or any other canal make by the hand of man, you will readily see that they are full of kinks and turns. Only the Suez canal is perfectly straight, a perfection well beyond the capability of mere mortals. The Suez is gods gift to man, any man willing to put aside his ignorant preconceptions and listen to the divine message.
If you are still unconvinced of the Suez Canals divine origin and life giving message, then you must go to the canal itself. You will be immediately struck by the fact that the canal has a LEFT BANK and a RIGHT BANK, and that this is true WHETHER YOU FACE UPSTREAM OR DOWNSTREAM!!! The overwhelming significance of this will be obvious, I am sure, even to someone as mired in smug, self-assured ignorance and arrogance as you appear to be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-27-2007 3:09 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 43 of 77 (387292)
02-27-2007 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Cold Foreign Object
02-27-2007 3:09 PM


Re: A timeline . . . is important
Timeline is irrelevant in this context SINCE we are only attempting to explain why the GP has extensive passages and all the rest have NONE.
timeline is important. why? here's your earlier statement in the OP:
Based on the above evidence we conclude that the Great Pyramid was built by persons with ultra-intellect (= descendants of Adam) and all the others are failed attempted copies built by North African sun worshippers
I've bolded the important part. why is it important? Have you ever tried to make a copy of something that doesn't exist? It's impossible. You're positing that the GP was built prior to any other pyramid (necessary in order to make the "failed" copies). There are pyramids built prior to the GP (take a look at the links in:
http://EvC Forum: Standing Alone: the Great Pyramid -->EvC Forum: Standing Alone: the Great Pyramid
oh, and they had a tendency to get rid of the architect--you know, to prevent tomb raiding (not that it worked, but). If you threw away the architect you designed the Saturn V-5 (which I notice no prior to the 20th century even attempted, much less had the knowledge to do so) every time you started anew, you'd get different, and sometimes inferior S V-5s.
not that you'll notice the importance of a timeline.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 44 of 77 (387308)
02-27-2007 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Cold Foreign Object
02-27-2007 3:26 PM


Re: Who built the pyramids?
The difference between an ascending and a descending passage is the direction in which you traverse them. So it is hard to say that it is significant.
Should the passage connecting the two burial chambers in the Bent Pyramid be consiered ascending ? If not, why not ? Indeed why should the two entrances not be viewed as ascending instead of descending ? - if you descend to go into one you must ascend to come out the other
And if you can answer those, then how about the ascending passage in the satellite pyramid connected to the Bent Pyramid ? How do you expalin away that one ?
Dashur, Cradle of the Pyramids

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-27-2007 3:26 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 77 (387310)
02-27-2007 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Cold Foreign Object
02-27-2007 3:26 PM


Re: Who built the pyramids?
The real question is why are you evading this question? It appears you cannot refute.
Au contraire, check out the Bent Pyramid. Do you see the tunnel in that diagram? That's an ascending passage way .
The builders of the GP knew the Earth was round; ancient Egypt believed the Earth was flat; that Ra evolved around a flat Earth. The builders of the GP knew THE EXACT polar diameter of the Earth; modern man did not know the exact figure until 1957 Sputnik artificial orbiting satellite measured the Earth...
Even if all this is true, how can you then make the claim:
...= human evolution is falsified.
Seems a little bit of faith is being used to make a leap of that sort.
Like I said; if you are ignorant about basic stuff like the Egyptian Book of the Dead then you should not participate. As for your invective we know that this is what persons say who are angered by the evidence and cannot refute.
Actually, I didn't ask you so that I could understand, I asked you in order to see if you understand; which because "you are ignorant about basic stuff like the Egyptian Book of the Dead" you clearly have no clue what it's even about. In one sentence, please, tell me what the Egyptian Book of the Dead is all about. If you could enlighten my ignorant trailer-park ass, I would most appreciate it .
Max

This message is a reply to:
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