Limits on Abortion

Why both parties? If just the mother's life is in danger, doesn't she have the right to kill in self-defense?

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"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

No, you just dismissed them without addressing them. And you've completely ignored the fact that these things happen in countries that criminalize abortion. Miscarriage becomes a crime; mothers become criminals when they're blamed for miscarrying "on purpose." Yeah - to the level of "thinking about the consequences of the policies you advocate." In other words I took it to the level you should have taken it to, yourself.Which you would have taken it to if this was about saving "innocent lives", not shaming sluts. You said yourself this was about "selfish women". What is that if not slut-shaming? Yet, you've shown no interest in telling us how you would enforce such a ban, or how you would prosecute cases of what you describe as "murder." You must realize that an unenforced ban doesn't save any "lives", right?The only reason that wouldn't concern you is because you're being disingenuous, and this isn't about saving anybody at all - this is about making sure that sexually active women know exactly what you think of them. Slut-shaming, in other words. Why else would you be motivated to talk about "selfishness"? And how would you determine intent? That's the question you're begging, and avoiding. For the third time, now. Amazing how obvious it is that you're not at all concerned about stopping abortions - you're concerned with the sex lives of women. It's embarrassingly prurient on your part.

Then how will you know if the miscarriage is a miscarriage or a "miscarriage"?

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Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

How much of an autopsy can you do on a 1 month old fetus that has been "miscarried"?

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Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

An unwanted fetus forces itself upon the woman? Are you being jocular?

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

Because abortion is not illegal. But in the event it was, what you are describing would be entrapment. 13 year olds don't go to jail for life. They serve a sentence in juvenile detention centers and then when they come of age, they are either released, serve parole, or are recommended to the adult prison system. If they are in fact accessories, why wouldn't we? Is there any difference from being dismembered in the womb than there is a woman who gives birth and throws their baby in a dumpster? If you say, no, then why? If you knowingly and intentionally kill an innocent person, that is what constitutes murder. So, yes, its premeditated murder. Why shouldn't it be. When a madman stabs a pregnant woman in the stomach, killing both mother and child, he is charged with double-homicide, is he not? Where then is the line of demarcation for becoming a human? Whether or not the mom says so? I haven't had a chance to respond to you once on this thread, so where am I "pussy-footing?" This reply is the beginning of our dialogue. Explain to me the ramifications. My wife had a child before she was able to properly care for her. What did she do? She did the unselfish, and far more difficult thing to do, which is give her up for adoption. Now she lives in a loving family and we visit her at least once a year. Tragic, isn't it? But maybe you're right. Perhaps she would have been better off being torn limb from limb. What part of "intent" do you folk not understand? If there is a miscarriage, there isn't anything you can do about that. But placing a shop-vac in your birth canal, you can choose not to do. Food for thought. Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : typo

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

Sigh.Sigh again.Sigh once more.Seriously, NJ. Just ten seconds on google before you post. That's all I ask.

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"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

Hey, we live in the same city. Let me come over, stay at your house for nine months, and all the while I'll eat your food, punch you in the stomach, and then forcibly stretch your genitals before I leave! Don't want me there? Fuck you! I'm stayin' and you can't kill me!Oh yeah, and ejecting me from your house will kill me too.Edited by docpotato, : No reason given.

That you don't see or consider the validity of this argument is very telling.You think it must be a {joke} rather than confront the reality of the situation.Of course that also means that maternity clothes are a big scam as women don't really need them eh? All the stuff you hear about "morning sickness" is also a put on yes?It's all in the head isn't it NJ?Are you really that clueless?

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when my mother miscarried in 1980, they investigated her to make sure she hadn't done it on purpose... and this was with legal abortions.

studies are of the devil!!!especially yours.we've been discussing the fact that abortion rates and unplanned pregnancy rates are directly related to quality sex education and contraceptive availability and use. they have ignored it since day one.

you say that as though there's any members to dis. most abortions happen before there are any members. HA! thanks to laws passed by pro-lifers for the specific purpose of making this argument. what does the bible say about a man who kills a pregnant woman or causes her to miscarry? birth. probably, considering the horrible psychological disfunctions caused by abandonment issues. visitation or not. but this isn't an argument unless every pro-lifer volunteers to adopt every child destined for abortion. do you know how many children are in the system? until there are no children waiting for homes, this arguments is flawed.

If a woman fell down the stairs, there would be trauma whether it was intentional or not. How would you tell if it's intentional? And you can't determine intent through an autopsy, meaning you would have to investigate every single miscarriage, if an intentional miscarriage is illegal. Actually, this is exactly what I wanted the thread to be. I wanted to examine your proposed limits on abortion, not just hear them. I think it's going quite well.

Read what I'm saying because I've explained very clearly. The ambivalence is all on your side of the table. If you come home one day and you find a family of yours dead at the bottom of the stairs in a pool of blood, are you going to throw your hands in the air in incredulity, and say, "Well, we don't if they tripped or if they were pushed. What on earth are we to do?"You get someone to investigate it. Its the same with the hypothetical scenario. Its entirely possible that many people have been murdered on a stair case, whether pregnant or not, that got away. But you don't use this as some sort of reason re-legalize abortion in the event that some people get away with it. If they escape human justice, let be on their conscience until a Higher Authority deals with the act. No, it really wouldn't. It would be handled like any other gynecological exam. If abortion were illegal then gynecologists would likely be mandated to speak out should any suspicions of a self-induced abortion present themselves. If the gynecologist lied for the mother because he was sympathetic to the pro-abortion movement, then let that be on his conscience too until a Higher Authority deals with it.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

Then how would you determine what was a legitimate miscarriage and what wasn't? So you do want to launch a police investigation into every miscarriage.

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Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor