Please quote correctly:
The issue is that you claimed a fetus "forces" itself inside its mother.
is NOT the same as
quote:
An unwanted fetus forces itself upon the woman, and rather relentlessly.
The fetus is a product of cell division that occurs rather relentlessly whether the woman wants it to or not.
And perhaps its escaped your attention that this is how you got your start in life.
You are comparing a caring and wanting family making a decision to have children with a woman that does not want to have a child - especially one that did not engage in sex for the purpose of having a child, and most especially one that did not willingly engage in sex.
Remember I said an "unwanted fetus". This is rather like the difference between having a chosen life partner live with you and having a stranger move in and take over, asking you to cloth and feed them and pay their living expenses while they sit around and watch tv.
One is wanted the other has forced itself on you.
The original comparison was between the forced participation in sex with an unwanted partner - rape - and the forced participation in the growth of the unwanted fetus.
Seriously, what in the world are you talking about?
The fact that the fetus grows whether the woman wants it to or not, and in the process it changes the hormones and other chemicals in her body and robbing her of nutrients and energy, and that this and the increased size and weight impinges on her ability to carry on life in a way that she desires to live.
Lets see, I believe that upon conception that a brand new human being is procreated.
That's great IF that is what you want to accomplish, but you are asking someone to accept your definitions whether they want that result or not.
You must realize that no life was "created" - two living elements sometimes combine (when an egg is fertilized) following sex, but they were not "dead" before. All that has happened is that some DNA has combined. DNA is not a person.
The probability that the result will be a healthy (breathing, functioning heart, functioning brain) baby is small. Often there is no contact between sperm and egg or sperm fails to penetrate the egg. Even after forming a zygote (the combined egg and sperm) most do not attach to the wall of the uterus but pass out to expire - naturally, and functionally no different than single - or even groups of - cells lost from the surface of your skin.
Of the 45% of the zygotes that form and then choose to stay - the zygote chooses whether to attach to the uterus or not - some 15% expire or are rejected by the woman's body leaving only a 33% success rate of zygotes becoming a fetus.
From
Message 45:
quote:
Notice that technically "fetus" refers to the last 6-7 months of development, preceded by the zygote to embryo stages (Human Development Chart), and that this is about where the life\death line is crossed as well. The chart also says (bold mine for emphasis):
day 7 - 9: Blastocyst implants in wall of uterus (55% of Zygotes never reach this stage.)
{and further down:} 15 % of pregnancies miscarry during weeks 4-12
By the time you've reached full term the percentage is down even more, and then there is the success rate of births that result in healthy (breathing, functioning heart, functioning brain) babies. You're probably into low single digits percentage wise of results in a healthy baby due to having sex.
This fetus, the product of a zygote that chooses to stay, grows relentlessly, whether the woman wants it to or not. It forces changes in hormones and dimensions and health on the woman whether she wants it to or not: while this may be tolerated by a woman that wants a child, an unwanted fetus forces itself on the woman, forces her to participate in it's continued growth and domination of her body.
Lastly: "If its not a baby, then you aren't pregnant."
If it's a baby and it's still in the womb then it is dead.
Babies require access to atmosphere to breath - that is one of the things that makes a baby fundamentally different from a fetus.
quote:
WordNet
baby - noun
1. a very young child (birth to 1 year) who has not yet begun to walk or talk; "isn't she too young to have a baby?"
2. (slang) sometimes used as a term of address for attractive young women
3. a very young mammal; "baby rabbits"
4. the youngest member of a group (not necessarily young); "the baby of the family"; "the baby of the Supreme Court"
5. an immature childish person; "he remained a child in practical matters as long as he lived"; "stop being a baby!" [syn: child]
6. a project of personal concern to someone; "this project is his baby"
Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary
ba·by - noun
Inflected Form: plural babies
1 : an extremely young child; especially : INFANT ”see BLUE BABY
2 : an extremely young animal ”baby adjective ”ba·by·hood /-bE-"hud/ noun
American Heritage Stedman's Medical Dictionary
ba·by - n.
A very young child; an infant.
Even after being born - becoming a baby - one can argue that it is still not a fully functioning human being:
http://www.genefaith.org/...bases/resources/humdevchart.html
quote:
child 8 - 11 yrs Capable of independent survival
And you would be closer to the truth than calling a zygote a baby - or a human being.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : partner
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