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Author Topic:   Jesus Tomb Found
alacrity fitzhugh
Member (Idle past 4310 days)
Posts: 194
Joined: 02-10-2004


Message 216 of 242 (388648)
03-06-2007 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Hyroglyphx
03-06-2007 8:50 PM


Re: I cant find any good discussion on this.
Here is a report on the jame ossuary from .bibleinterp.com by Dr. Rochelle I. Altman who is an expert in specialist in ancient phonetic-based writing systems and was a contributor to the The Ioudaios-L Discussion List which was a community of scholars ( still accessible) engaged in on-line discussion of Judaism in the Greco-Roman world
quote:
The inscription has been translated as “Jacob son of Joseph brother of Joshua.”
quote:
The two parts are not related; the differences between them are striking.
quote:
The inscription on the “James” ossuary is anomalous. First, it was written by two different people. Second, the scripts are from two different social strata. Third, the first script is a formal inscriptional cursive with added wedges; the second script is partly a commercial cursive and partly archaic cursive. Fourth, it has been gone over by two different carvers of two different levels of competence.
quote:
Conclusion
If the entire inscription on the ossuary is genuine, then somebody has to explain why there are two hands, two different scripts, two different social strata, two different levels of execution, two different levels of literacy, and two different carvers. They could also explain where the frame has gone.
quote:
The ossuary itself is undoubtedly genuine; the well-executed and formal first part of the inscription is a holographic original by a literate (and wealthy) survivor of Jacob bar Yosef, probably sometime during the Herodian period. The second part of the inscription bears the hallmarks of a fraudulent later addition, probably around the 3rd or 4th centuries, and is questionable to say the least.
All bold mine. go to Official Report on the James Ossuary
It is not
nemesis_juggernaut writes:
Like I said, it immediately met hostility
It is because some of us go with the facts that are presented. Some folks easily fall for snake oil salesmen others do not. There in fact may have been a person named jesus, he may have been like his eras Gandhi. But Gandhi Freed His people and led them. Jesus was tried, convicted and executed like a common criminal.
Edited by alacrity fitzhugh, : No reason given.

six(sic)six

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Hyroglyphx, posted 03-06-2007 8:50 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by anastasia, posted 03-06-2007 9:45 PM alacrity fitzhugh has replied

  
alacrity fitzhugh
Member (Idle past 4310 days)
Posts: 194
Joined: 02-10-2004


Message 219 of 242 (388657)
03-06-2007 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by anastasia
03-06-2007 9:45 PM


Re: I cant find any good discussion on this.
Did they usually crucify people without a conviction
quote:
However, from the standpoint of the Sanhedrin, things didn’t go smoothly here either. The penalty for blasphemy was death, but since the Romans had taken away their authority to impose the death penalty, they had to refer Jesus to the Roman authorities. By policy, the Romans didn’t get involved in religious disputes, so the Sanhedrin had to emphasize the fact that the word ”Messiah’ refers to a king, which could be construed as sedition against Rome. Pilate tried to get out of judging Jesus on the technicality that Jesus was from Galilee, so he sent Him to Herod the Tetrarch of Galilee, who was in Jerusalem at the time. Unfortunately for Pilate, Herod sent Jesus back. Finally, after Pilate examined Jesus and found that His kingship was no political threat to Rome, he declared Jesus innocent of any crime (Matthew 27:23, Mark 15:14, Luke 23:13-16, John 18:38). In the end, Pilate bowed to pressure and consented to the crucifixion under protest. But Pilate used the crucifixion to taunt the Sanhedrin. It was customary to place a plaque on the cross over the convict, stating the offense. Pilate did not write, “Claimed to be King of the Jews,” instead he wrote, “Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews.” (John 19:19-22) In this way, Pilate showed his sympathies were with Jesus, not the Sanhedrin.
Ken Collins web site-Who Crucified Jesus?
By consenting, he convicted even if it was with him protesting against it.'
Edited by alacrity fitzhugh, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by anastasia, posted 03-06-2007 9:45 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by anastasia, posted 03-06-2007 10:44 PM alacrity fitzhugh has replied

  
alacrity fitzhugh
Member (Idle past 4310 days)
Posts: 194
Joined: 02-10-2004


Message 226 of 242 (388742)
03-07-2007 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by anastasia
03-06-2007 10:44 PM


Re: I cant find any good discussion on this.
I said he was convicted. And he was convicted of blasphemy by Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin. he was executed by the Romans because Rome had stripped the power to enforce the death penalty from the Sanhedrin. Whether or not Pilate thought he was guilty does not change the fact that he was convicted ( by Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin) and executed by the romans as a criminal.
On another note- the trail account is seen as fictitious.
quote:
The gospel accounts so transparently attempt to present the chief priests--and not Pilate--as the more blameworthy party that scholars have raised numerous questions about their accuracy. Scholars have paid special attention to the incentives of Mark because he wrote theearliest of the four gospel accounts in the Bible, and Matthew, Luke, and (to a lesser extent) John based their accounts on his. The scholars point out that Mark--writing at a time of Roman prosecution of Christians and for a largely non-Jewish audience--had incentives to present a story that would minimize the risk of condemnation by Roman authorities and maximize his prospects for winning converts to Christianity from among the Romans in his audience. How could Mark, these scholars ask, possibly have known what Pilate "wondered" about Jesus' guilt or what he "perceived" about the purposes of high priests? The Trial of Jesus: An Account
But this is more relevant to what I was discussing with Brian about Roman burial customs. If the Romans didn't find guilt, I would like a reason why they would not allow a decent burial.
You want to use the post from an Native American atheist to argue against a degreed biblical scholar

six(sic)six

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by anastasia, posted 03-06-2007 10:44 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by anastasia, posted 03-07-2007 1:57 PM alacrity fitzhugh has replied
 Message 239 by anastasia, posted 04-19-2007 11:56 PM alacrity fitzhugh has not replied

  
alacrity fitzhugh
Member (Idle past 4310 days)
Posts: 194
Joined: 02-10-2004


Message 229 of 242 (388758)
03-07-2007 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by anastasia
03-07-2007 1:57 PM


Re: Conviction
I am asking you and Mr Degreed Biblical Scholar, whether or not it is plausible for a Roman, specifically, Pilate, to have handed over a body for a burial that was not usual for Roman criminals
And all I'm writing is that he was convicted. Whether Pilate did this or not would be logically deduced by the history of what the romans did in these instances.
The more you keep telling me that the Sanhedrin convicted Jesus, the more reason I have for admitting the possibility that Pilate did indeed allow a decent burial.
Being convicted by the Sanhedrin and having the punishment carried out by the Romans has you conclued this how?
Then you both want to say that the Jews were likely scape-goated, which is perfectly fine speculation, but please make up your minds.
Where did I say the jews were scape-goated? A more plausable explanation would be that pilate was using one group against the other. .
No, I was just letting you know that I was responding to your post even though my response was more relevant to a previous one.
My original post was to nj in the fact that he has a habit of seeing people who disagree with him as indication of bias against his position/religion. I was pointing out that it is not just atheist who feel that the ossaury inscription is false but people who are not , as he feels, biased. I was also pointing out that just because someone feels your religion has no merit does not mean that said person does not believe certain historical people may have existed. for all I now jesus did exist, but the claim that he was the son of god is the part I contest.

six(sic)six

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by anastasia, posted 03-07-2007 1:57 PM anastasia has not replied

  
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