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Author | Topic: Because The Bible Tells Me So | |||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I don't think you can say that foolishness is necessarily false.
Let me try an analogy. Your whole post conveyed a message that I'm assuming is the truth for this analogy. If I read it and offered my wisdom that "Your post was typed in English." We could consider that foolishness (when compared to the wisdom provided by the actual points it was making) but that doesn't make it false (which it wasn't). So, the wisdom we have (which can be truthful) is negligible (foolishness) to the wisdom of god not that our wisdom is false. Does that make sense?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Whether it makes sense is not relevant. What is relevant is what was intended in the biblical passage. Yup. I don't think that even the original passage equates foolishness with falsehood, although, admittedly, I haven't read the original.
I think most believe that in this instance foolishness means false. What people believe is as irrelevant as if it makes sense. Still, I don't think your correct that MOST believe that foolishness is necessarily falsehood.
I agree that in other contexts it can have other meanings. Why are you so stuck on your idea that foolishness must equal false? Its like you're TRYING to make the passage more confusing than it actually is.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
If someone were to start a new topic thread with an opening post that began: "The theory of evolution is Allow me to strike the word "total" from the situation. I think it only adds confusion.
would you conclude that this person believes the ToE to be valid, just limited to some extent in its compass? Actually, yes I would. I would expect that the person did not think that the theory was false, but that it did not descibe reality in its totality. That the theory missed something extra but was accurate within itself. For example, the poster might think that God had a hand in evolution and that the ToE was accurately descibing how God did it. And since the ToE leaves god out of it, then that person would be calling it foolish in that it totally missed God entirely.
I would conclude that he is arguing that the theory is false. Then you would be wrong
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I think you're being disingenuous. Around here, we see people saying that "ToE is foolishness" all the time - and they nearly always mean it's false. Well nonetheless, I would still contend that they are using the word improperly. Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence. Letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith. Science has failed our world. Science has failed our Mother Earth. -System of a Down, "Science" He who makes a beast out of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man.-Avenged Sevenfold, "Bat Country"
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Your contention is noted. However, most of us are using the English language as is, straight out of the box - not your peculiar personal dialect. Aren't we In plain English, the word "foolishness" does not have positive connotations. I don't think it has positive connotations, I just think that it does NOT mean "false".
I contend that "foolish" means foolish - not incomplete. What about in the quote in question? Give us your interpretation.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Which is why I showed that the Greek word means "foolishness" too. IMO, WRT the quote, I think foolishness means negligible.
It means "beyond false", "false to the point of being stupid". But still false...I think that's wrong.
As I said early in the thread oh, sorry...
I think the phrase is meaningless unless we know exactly what God's wisdom is. What if we set God's wisdom as omniscience? Then what do you think it means? What about for something very near but not quite omniscience (you know what I mean?)? If the magnitude of the value of God's wisdom is infinite, then whatever value we are at is negligible (foolishness) compared to God's but that doesn't mean that we are wrong (false) in our wisdom. Even if we don't set it at infinite, whatever value we assume god has, it is probably high enough to render ours as negligible. Which is what I think the point of the quote is. I don't think it means that our wisdom is false, do you? (realizing you think its meaningless).
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
If human wisdom is all we have, how can it be negligible? When compared to the magnitude of god's, presumed, wisdom.
The "God's wisdom" that we are talking about is strictly hypothetical unless it becomes human wisdom.
/nod
If anything, "God's wisdom" is negligible because we don't know what it is. Yeah...in practicality lol
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
"Presumed" wisdom is irrelevant, since it is human wisdom doing the presuming. For all we know, God might be an idiot savant who can create wonderful universes but can't tie His own shoes.
Well, if we're talking about a quote from the Bible, then we have an idea about which god we're talking about and what his qualifties can be assumed to be.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
You can "pre"sume or "as"sume anything you want, but it's still a human presumption or a human assumption. It's human wisdom about what may or may not be God's wisdom. So then the quote becomes:
quote: I can imagine god's wisdom being so great that the wisdom of the world is negligible compared to it. I think describing the wisdom of the world as foolishness could mean that. I don't think it has to mean that our wisdom is false.
There can not be any meaningful comparison between our wisdom and God's wisdom unless we know what God's wisdom is. And how can we know what God's wisdom is if our wisdom is so stunted? Some guy had a belief about god's wisdom and said that our's is foolishness compared do god's. I don't think he was saying that all our wisdom is false. I think he's saying that ours is minuscule.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
In this context, what's the difference between false and miniscule? Because we are not wrong. We just don't know it all. To say that the quote means that we are wrong makes the quote false, IMHO. To say that the quote only means that there is much-much more to learn, means that the quote is true, presumably.
For practical purposes, it's the really, really, really, really big God-wisdom that's irrelevant. To the athiest, yes. To the theist, no.
The "true" wisdom is the wisdom that works. Word.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
That makes no sense. If we don't know it all, how can we know we're not wrong? We can't. Its just a quote, Ringo. You don't have to wholly agree with it to say that foolishness does not equal falsehood.
Well, I showed that the Greek word translated "foolishness" means "silly", "absurd", "dull", "stupid". Your opinion notwithstanding, there can't be much doubt that that implies "wrong". I don't find any of those synonyms to be equal to "false" by necessity, either.
Theist or atheist makes no difference. Unless a theist knows what God knows, he is in the same boat with the atheist. He has only his own wisdom. But the quote is not about what the author knows, its just a belief of his. It is not some profound fact... just a musing, IMHO. It is based on his belief about what he thinks god knows, not some fact about what god must know.
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