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Author | Topic: Because The Bible Tells Me So | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: I dunno...its kinda like a talent scout knows talent. hey can just smell it. That's a good analogy. There is no absolute standard of what "talent" is. A (good) talent scout has an ability to recognize talent that the general public will enjoy. A bad talent scout will be distracted by his own tastes. Similarly, a good "wisdom scout" would have an ability to recognize what the general public would perceive as wisdom. A bad wisdom scout would be confused by his own preconceived notions of what wisdom is. So we're back to square one: talent is what we perceive as talent and wisdom is what we perceive as wisdom.
Im not sure if we are programmed to be in touch with Gods wisdom or not, though. If we were "programmed" to be in touch with God's wisdom, wouldn't that make our wisdom closer to His instead of farther? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Ringo writes:
Yeah. If we were "programmed" to be in touch with God's wisdom, wouldn't that make our wisdom closer to His instead of farther? I gotta go to work, but when I get home, I'll bring up some scriptures that would qualify as my preconceived teaching. (what I was taught) Then we can put our noggins together and see if it all makes sense or whether P.T. Barnum was right!
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
You can "pre"sume or "as"sume anything you want, but it's still a human presumption or a human assumption. It's human wisdom about what may or may not be God's wisdom. So then the quote becomes:
quote: I can imagine god's wisdom being so great that the wisdom of the world is negligible compared to it. I think describing the wisdom of the world as foolishness could mean that. I don't think it has to mean that our wisdom is false.
There can not be any meaningful comparison between our wisdom and God's wisdom unless we know what God's wisdom is. And how can we know what God's wisdom is if our wisdom is so stunted? Some guy had a belief about god's wisdom and said that our's is foolishness compared do god's. I don't think he was saying that all our wisdom is false. I think he's saying that ours is minuscule.
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes: I can imagine god's wisdom being so great that the wisdom of the world is negligible compared to it. Again, what you can imagine/conceive/comprehend is human wisdom. You might be imagining a realy, really, really, really big elephant, but it's still an elephant.
I don't think he was saying that all our wisdom is false. I think he's saying that ours is minuscule. In this context, what's the difference between false and miniscule? However miniscule, our own wisdom is all we have. For practical purposes, it's the really, really, really, really big God-wisdom that's irrelevant. The "true" wisdom is the wisdom that works. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
In this context, what's the difference between false and miniscule? Because we are not wrong. We just don't know it all. To say that the quote means that we are wrong makes the quote false, IMHO. To say that the quote only means that there is much-much more to learn, means that the quote is true, presumably.
For practical purposes, it's the really, really, really, really big God-wisdom that's irrelevant. To the athiest, yes. To the theist, no.
The "true" wisdom is the wisdom that works. Word.
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes: In this context, what's the difference between false and miniscule? Because we are not wrong. We just don't know it all. That makes no sense. If we don't know it all, how can we know we're not wrong?
To say that the quote means that we are wrong makes the quote false, IMHO. Well, I showed that the Greek word translated "foolishness" means "silly", "absurd", "dull", "stupid". Your opinion notwithstanding, there can't be much doubt that that implies "wrong".
For practical purposes, it's the really, really, really, really big God-wisdom that's irrelevant. To the athiest, yes. To the theist, no. Theist or atheist makes no difference. Unless a theist knows what God knows, he is in the same boat with the atheist. He has only his own wisdom. (The atheist is just more honest about it.) Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
That makes no sense. If we don't know it all, how can we know we're not wrong? We can't. Its just a quote, Ringo. You don't have to wholly agree with it to say that foolishness does not equal falsehood.
Well, I showed that the Greek word translated "foolishness" means "silly", "absurd", "dull", "stupid". Your opinion notwithstanding, there can't be much doubt that that implies "wrong". I don't find any of those synonyms to be equal to "false" by necessity, either.
Theist or atheist makes no difference. Unless a theist knows what God knows, he is in the same boat with the atheist. He has only his own wisdom. But the quote is not about what the author knows, its just a belief of his. It is not some profound fact... just a musing, IMHO. It is based on his belief about what he thinks god knows, not some fact about what god must know.
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes: I don't find any of those synonyms to be equal to "false" by necessity, either. Unless you're yodelling My Fair Lady while doing backflips, "foolishness" is a lot closer to "false" than it is to "not false".
But the quote is not about what the author knows, its just a belief of his. That's not what it says though. Paul was making a direct comparison between human wisdom and God's wisdom:
quote: He said directly, "The Lord knoweth...." - clearly implying that Paul knoweth what God knoweth. How can you twist that into Paul not claiming to have wisdom over and above human wisdom?
It is not some profound fact... just a musing, IMHO. That's what I've been saying all along: "God's wisdom is not our wisdom" has no more meaning than "'Twas brillig and the slithy toves...." Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: How can we possibly know what is foolishness to God? The wisdom of the world is all we have. You had a good argument ten years ago. Lets discuss the Chicago Statement.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I Googled it. It's way too long to read but I'm willing to nitpick whatever parts of it you bring up.
Lets discuss the Chicago Statement.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I think I already understand your position on it. I'm more interested in their position and how they arrived at it.
Let me get my ducks in a row and then I'll make a post here in a day or so. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
They first decided what must be true and then wrote an apologetic to prove that what THEY wanted was TRUE.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2422 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
quote: I know that the Roman Catholic church has a 1911 rule of belief (that the faithful must follow) on the ORIGINAL Gospel of Matthew: It must be in Hebrew or Aramaic. It must contain substantially the same text as the later Greek Matthew. It cannot simply be seen as a Sayings gospel (like Thomas and Q). It is not required to have be written AFTER Peter came to Rome (after 60 A.D.) like Irenaeus & others said. (understand that the Greek translation can be seen as later than Mark) (I can find references) Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2422 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
here was my words first.
quote: Jar then said
quote: I was thinking of the Council of Carthage. Here are protestant apologists. Found this on Bingkeywords: council carthage authoritative early church quote: Found this onkeywords: cannon council carthage roman government Jerome quote: The government did decide these councils near 400 AD. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
It appears to me that the desired focus of your discussion is earlier than the Reform Movement (Sproul topic) and not Eurocentric. Please clarify your position as to what your argument is. I was preparing to discuss The Chicago Innerancy statement here. What is it that you wanted to discuss?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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