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Author Topic:   Denouncing religions ? [New to debate]
ICANT
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Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 14 of 89 (389474)
03-13-2007 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by nator
03-09-2007 7:31 AM


Here's a good place to start on that question,
I visited the site and I did not get anything that I had not read on this site. Except it was in one place there.
I just don't understand this religion Vs evolution thing. I guess I am too dumb or too old (67).
I am a farm boy so I understand evolution, I think. You can improve livestock by selective breeding. You can improve seeds by selective pollination. I have evolved from a strong agile youth to a dotting old fool. But I have never seen nor has anyone ever been able to show me one piece of evidence of macro evolution (one species becoming another species).
I have asked the question many time where the singularitry came from that the universe supposedly started from? The best answer I have got so far is, I don't know.
The young earth bunch is just as wrong.
They can tell me about when Gen. 1:2 occurred. But no one has ever proved to me when Gen. 1:1 took place.
As I have understood Gen. 1:1 to say for the last 50 years that In the realm or sphere of the beginnings God literally tore from himself the universe, speaking it into existence.
That could have possibly taken place a few hundred million billion years ago, or longer I have no way of knowing.
A few years from now we may have a better system of dating that will prove my point, then maybe not.
Now I will really open myself up to get bashed. I am a child of the King. I believe that in the distant past God spoke the universe into being. In that same day he made man, animals, vegetation, and everything. Later it was destroyed. I don't know how but I have read where science says it happened that life forms disappeared. Then some time ago God moved to correct this situation and we find the earth in the condition it is in Gen. 1:2. Thus the seven days of Moses as I like to refer to them, because it was not creation.
Now since I am so far off base from what I can find that others believe I don't know what this would make me.
I believe that true science is true. I believe that theories are just that, whether it is one man's opinion or millions. I believe that there are many religions. I believe that there are many theories of how the Universe and mankind came about. I believe that there is one God.
I also believe that does it not make any difference what I believe. Just because I believe it does not make it true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by nator, posted 03-09-2007 7:31 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by AZPaul3, posted 03-13-2007 8:38 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 17 by nator, posted 03-14-2007 10:50 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 26 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-15-2007 7:04 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 18 of 89 (389687)
03-14-2007 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by MadaManga
03-14-2007 9:37 AM


Re-Religious Studies
Which makes me ask - is Religious Studies part of the curriculum in America?
Only in private Church run schools.
You cannot even say God bless you if someone sneezes without offending someone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by MadaManga, posted 03-14-2007 9:37 AM MadaManga has not replied

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 Message 19 by nator, posted 03-14-2007 9:41 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 20 of 89 (389703)
03-15-2007 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by MadaManga
03-08-2007 9:29 AM


Creationism
Evolutionists theories go against all religions equally, so how do Creationists get away with their bias against other religions?
They think they are the only ones right.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by MadaManga, posted 03-08-2007 9:29 AM MadaManga has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 21 of 89 (389705)
03-15-2007 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by nator
03-14-2007 9:41 PM


Re: Re-Religious Studies
Exaggerate much?
Not Found
A pro-family law firm the American Center for Law and Justice is defending a high school student in Illinois who was suspended for at least a month for saying “God bless”
opps wasn't for sneezing though my fault.

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Replies to this message:
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 34 of 89 (389799)
03-15-2007 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by MadaManga
03-15-2007 5:44 AM


Re: Something truely unbelievable - no RE
And I'm guessing that in the Church run schools they only teach the religion of the church.
Only the beliefs of that particular Church or denomination.
This only covers the Church Schools that I am familiar with.

This message is a reply to:
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 35 of 89 (389811)
03-15-2007 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by MadaManga
03-15-2007 5:44 AM


Re: Something truely unbelievable - no RE
How can being able to better understand people be unconstitutional. Religions exists. Ignoring them isn't going to make them go away - it's just going to increase public fear of them.
Our fore fathers put in our constitution a phrase "freedom of religion". Which I always thought meant that people could believe as they pleased without interference from the government.
But our court systems in the past 55 years have interpreted that to mean freedom from religion, that the government could not sponsor any program or teaching that refereed to God or Religion. Because of that no prayer, no bible, no religion classes in school. Remember this is my opinion.
Just because I believe it does not make it true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by MadaManga, posted 03-15-2007 5:44 AM MadaManga has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by jar, posted 03-15-2007 5:29 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 38 of 89 (389842)
03-15-2007 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by jar
03-15-2007 5:29 PM


Re: not even close to true.
Of course religion classes can be held in a school, even a public school.
Maybe in some places. But I am speaking from my experience in school, in the 50's.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by jar, posted 03-15-2007 5:29 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 03-15-2007 6:59 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 40 of 89 (389848)
03-15-2007 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by jar
03-15-2007 6:59 PM


Re: not even close to true.
It was CERTAINLY true in the 50s. In fact during the 50s they could even have taught the Bible as FACT.
jar I went to high school in Greenville Fla. in 1954-1957. We were not allowed to read the Bible, or pray openly. We did not have any religious classes. We did not study evolution as my teachers were all Christians and refused to teach it.
That is why at age 67 I am on the Internet trying to learn things that I should have known all my life.
So please bear with me when I sound so ignorant and unlearned as I am trying to learn and there is so little time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 03-15-2007 6:59 PM jar has replied

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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 56 of 89 (391819)
03-27-2007 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by AZPaul3
03-13-2007 8:38 PM


Denouncing religions ? [New to debate]
All those equations that have worked so well for us everywhere else in the universe just cannot tell us what happened before .0000000000000000000000000000000001 second after whatever it was that did happen, happened. We don’t know. I fear you and I and a whole bunch of people on this planet will never see the answer to this question. But some day we will find it.
If I am correct in what I believe every person that has ever lived will know the answer one day. If I am wrong and evolution is correct it won't make any difference how, when, why, or where it happened.

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 Message 57 by crashfrog, posted 03-27-2007 4:14 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 58 of 89 (392055)
03-28-2007 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by crashfrog
03-27-2007 4:14 PM


Re: Denouncing religions ? [New to debate]
crashfrog writes:
If evolution is correct - and it largely seems to be
If evolution is correct including the origin of the universe and life on earth (not just things changing over time or different breeds of things) answer these two questions.
Where did whatever it was that the universe started from come from?
Where did life come from?
I don't understand this reasoning.
If I evolved from something then there is no soul or spirit in me so when I die that's it. So what difference does it make where the universe came from or how life began. We are wasting our time looking for answers. We should eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we may die.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by ringo, posted 03-28-2007 11:42 PM ICANT has replied
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 60 of 89 (392091)
03-29-2007 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by ringo
03-28-2007 11:42 PM


Re: Denouncing religions
all religions
I don't see where I have many options as to what happens at death.
I have heard of reincarnation that means I get to come back and do it again as something else.
What are the other options? Enlighten me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by ringo, posted 03-28-2007 11:42 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by MadaManga, posted 03-29-2007 10:29 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 64 by ringo, posted 03-29-2007 12:03 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 63 of 89 (392118)
03-29-2007 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by MadaManga
03-29-2007 10:29 AM


Re: Denouncing religions
Except for the drinking part
I drink nothing stronger than Pepsi.
stop anyone aiming for contentment?
I have complete contentment in the position I find myself in.
I have peace, joy and happiness beyond compare.
If your needs are met,
I am 67 years old and my God has always supplied everything I have ever needed. Including the most beautiful woman in the world to be my partner for the past 50 years come June 3rd.
What more could anyone ask for?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by MadaManga, posted 03-29-2007 10:29 AM MadaManga has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by MadaManga, posted 03-29-2007 12:04 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 66 of 89 (392188)
03-29-2007 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by MadaManga
03-29-2007 12:04 PM


Re: Denouncing religions
I gather you are happy because you have met your needs.
No but because my needs have been met by my God.
If it had not been for my God I would not be where I am today.
Aren't you glad you are able to do so with out someone trying to stop you
YES
I want to be the best I can be and to do that I must study and learn. Yes it has been a great experience here. I have found area's
in my life that I was insensitive to certain things. These things I must work on and eliminate to be complete.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by MadaManga, posted 03-29-2007 12:04 PM MadaManga has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 67 of 89 (392192)
03-29-2007 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by ringo
03-29-2007 12:03 PM


Re: Denouncing religions
Hi Ringo keep making me think.
What does death have to do with it? I was responding to your opninion on the origin of the soul.
I believe God made man in his image. Body, Mind, Spirit (soul)
Gene 1:26 (KJS) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Now if there is no God there can be no soul.
If as some believe God started the process and left everything up to chance you might be right but I haven't found that Bible yet.
Therefore I believe to have a spirit (soul) you have to have a divine creator that put the spirit in man. And I do not understand how that could take place in something that evolved from a single cell life form that nobody knows where it came from or why.
But they can tell you about when this life form appeared according to our present scientific data.
Now if you can shed some light on the orgin of the (soul) spirit of man please do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by ringo, posted 03-29-2007 12:03 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by ringo, posted 03-29-2007 7:23 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 69 of 89 (392201)
03-29-2007 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by ringo
03-29-2007 7:23 PM


Re: Denouncing religions
I already mentioned that I think the soul/spirit/mind of an individual develops some time after birth. It's a learning process, social, environmental. It's not primarily biological, so it doesn't matter whether we evolved from chemicals or if some god zapped us into existence.
Do you have something to base this belief on or is it just your opinion?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by ringo, posted 03-29-2007 7:23 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by ringo, posted 03-29-2007 7:46 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 80 by Larni, posted 03-30-2007 9:03 AM ICANT has not replied

  
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