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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5841 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 31 of 1864 (381905)
02-02-2007 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Greatest I am
02-02-2007 10:09 AM


Re: The Physical Resurrection
You indicate that some will be left behind.
I would suggest that at that time God takes us all in because all souls, if God is God, are Perfect.
kjv Luke 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

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 Message 30 by Greatest I am, posted 02-02-2007 10:09 AM Greatest I am has replied

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 Message 32 by Greatest I am, posted 02-02-2007 12:17 PM johnfolton has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 524 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 32 of 1864 (381916)
02-02-2007 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by johnfolton
02-02-2007 11:55 AM


Re: The Physical Resurrection
Leaving any would constitute a failure on God's part.
This is not allowed by God.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
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 Message 33 by johnfolton, posted 02-03-2007 12:09 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5841 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 33 of 1864 (382057)
02-03-2007 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Greatest I am
02-02-2007 12:17 PM


Re: The Physical Resurrection
Leaving any would constitute a failure on God's part.
This is not allowed by God.
With God all things happen in their time, it would not make any sense if some are not left behind. Its the rapture the first part of the first resurrection completed when the souls of them that are killed for their faith that were left behind are resurrected. All souls that have ever lived that are not of the first resurrection will be a part of the second resurrection that will happen after the thousand year rule of Christ for the Great White Throne judgment. Its prophecy and if it happened any other way it would violate prophecy, etc...
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

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 Message 32 by Greatest I am, posted 02-02-2007 12:17 PM Greatest I am has replied

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Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 524 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 34 of 1864 (382120)
02-03-2007 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by johnfolton
02-03-2007 12:09 AM


Re: The Physical Resurrection
When logic and prophesy clash I will go with logic.
When God reaps He reaps fully.
Read about how God is greedy, perfect. Read where He lost His power to make Perfection. I could not find that passage. Show where He sits with Satan and divides His loses with the one that bested Him.
Impossible.
Jesus is the way. Try to think with the benevolence of Jesus. Would He not ask God to turn the other cheek.
Would God not turn it.
Regards
DL

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Delta
Junior Member (Idle past 6460 days)
Posts: 7
Joined: 03-16-2007


Message 35 of 1864 (389879)
03-16-2007 12:04 PM


Remember, when Jesus was being baptized by John the Baptist, the Father's voice was heard to say; "this is my Son". Also present was the Holy Spirit. See Matthew 3:16-17
The Father, The Son, and The Holly Spirit all together as One...as Jesus said many times... "I and my Father are one" John 10:30
The plurality of God is is also demonstrated in Genesis 1:26 where Jehovah says; "Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness."
Genesis 11:7, "let US go down, and there confound their language."
It's obvious God is not talking to angels here
Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (1John 5:8~12)
And take a look of the old Testament, which Quar'an says demands you to belieave :
"..For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne ... from that time on and forever."
Isaiah chapter 9-5
Isaiah is talking about Mighty God
Jesus fulfilled over 350 prophecies about Himself. Of these, over 105 it would be impossible for anyone else in history to fulfill
You can understand the Triunity of God as many examples in Nature....because...as you know...God made all...He is the creator :
There is 3 states of water : solid , liquid, and gaseous ... but all of them still water, and the water natural state is liquid...The father is the natural state of God's nature...but it manifests in the son and the Holly Spirit....because they are one : the water/God
Our universe itself is a three in one trinity.
1. Space. Infinite. Relates to the Father.
2. Mass. Visible. Relates to the Son.
3. Time. Animates the universe. Relates to the Holy Spirit.
Time is a three in one entity.
1. Future. Relates to the Father, the planner and the plan.
2. Present. The only visible manifestation of time. Relates to the Son.
3. Past. We should learn a lot from it. What would we know without it? Relates to our teacher, the Holy Spirit.
The electricity power :
1. Potential. (volts) Can't be seen or felt until there is a path for current flow, but the power is available. Relates to the Father.
2. Path or load. (ohms) The power becomes manifest, or visible, whether it is the movement of a needle or digits on a meter, or the electric appliances in our home. Relates to the Son.
3. Current. (amps) Electricity in action. Relates to the Holy Spirit.
The light :
Light is light, right? Yes, but it has three characteristics that relate directly to the Trinity.
1. Actinic. The quality of light that is neither seen nor felt but makes the plants grow. Relates to the Father.
2. Luminiferious. The quality that can be seen and felt. Relates to the Son.
3. Calorific. The quality that cannot be seen, but can be felt. Relates to the Holy Spirit.
Now we can start to see what God's Word means when it says we are created in the "image of God". Man is a triune being also:
1. Soul. Neither seen nor felt, but contains our databank that makes us who we are. Relates to the Father.
2. Body. Our manifestation. You can see it and feel it. Relates to the Son.
3. Spirit. You can neither see nor feel our spirit, just like God's Spirit.
=====
It is the only way that the bible makes sense as one, i.e., the only way that all pieces are assembled together as ONE...the OLD testament and the NEW...as the revelation from God to mankind
Also it makes sense If we just understand God as :
God is an awesome, infinite, loving Spirit and light. God is incapable of lying or sinning....He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow
Because of His infinite nature of Justice and perfection, He doesn't tolerate the sin...no human could reach God or see His face, but because He is also infinite in love.....He sent us his own child who has no sins and all the God justice came upon His shoulders....and because of His pain and dead...all mankind was absolved....He has paid all our sins...for us
Because that infinite justice, His infinite nature, a sin against a infinite God...requires a infinite repair...therefore...all mankind would be condemned to Hell.....therefore He gave His son...to pay and repair all mandkind sins....so all can be saved...
Because Jesus is One with the Father....so He is infinite ... no sins...and His slaughter/sacrifice in the Cross was a infinite sacrifice to all Humanity and fulfilled ALL INFINITE justice of God - a perfect sacrifice from a perfect God
In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins. (1 Jn 4:9-10)
But it is a mistery...so I end with this :
Can a dog understand the nature of the human-being ?!
No
either the Human-being can understand the infinite nature of God
Edited by Delta, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by ringo, posted 03-16-2007 12:56 PM Delta has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 662 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 36 of 1864 (389887)
03-16-2007 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Delta
03-16-2007 12:04 PM


Hi, Delta. Welcome to EvC.
(There's no need to post the same thing in two threads. We'll find ya. )
I'm pretty sure my comments would be off-topic in the other thread, so I'll try my luck here:
Delta writes:
The Father, The Son, and The Holly Spirit all together as One...as Jesus said many times... "I and my Father are one" John 10:30
But when Jesus was challenged by the Jews, He said:
quote:
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
In refering to people "unto whom the word of God came" as "gods", how was He distinguishing Himself from them?
Genesis 11:7, "let US go down, and there confound their language."
It's obvious God is not talking to angels here
How is it obvious?
Jesus fulfilled over 350 prophecies about Himself. Of these, over 105 it would be impossible for anyone else in history to fulfill
I'm not even going to touch those so-called "prophecies". Our local prophecy wonks can try to set you straight.
Our universe itself is a three in one trinity.
Almost anything can be described in a threefold manner. You could talk about the Trinity of Cats: the Eyes, Ears and Whiskers. You could talk about the Trinity of Ice Cream: Chocolate, Vanilla and Stawberry.
That doesn't mean it inherently has a threefold nature.
Can a dog understand the nature of the human-being ?!
We don't know. We only assume that they don't understand us.
either the Human-being can understand the infinite nature of God
By your logic, then, God can only assume that we don't understand Him.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Delta, posted 03-16-2007 12:04 PM Delta has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Delta, posted 03-16-2007 5:37 PM ringo has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 277 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 37 of 1864 (389892)
03-16-2007 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by sidelined
01-13-2007 7:39 PM


Re: Trin Trinity Trin Trinity Trin Trin Teree ©
Hi sidelined
What is the specific attribute of the Holy Spirit that makes it possible to impregnate a human female?
Doctors do it all the time why should God not be able to do it.
From Wikipedia
The surrogate mother may be the baby's biological mother (traditional surrogacy) or she may be implanted with someone else's fertilized egg.

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ICANT
Member (Idle past 277 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 38 of 1864 (389896)
03-16-2007 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by sidelined
01-14-2007 4:59 PM


Re-Trinity
sidelined said:
It falls apart right off the hop because it requires that we assert 3 different items to in fact be the same item without explanation for how we can justify it.
What part of an egg is not an egg? The shell, the white, or the yoke.
Gen. 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.......
Matt 22:37 (KJS) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Heart is physical, soul is spirit, mind is what we use to reason with, make decisions with and sit here and come up with things to type.
Thus we are a trinity and if we are in Gods image and likeness, Just maybe God is a Trinity also.
But evolution says we have no spirit, just body and mind.
Just because I believe it that does not make it true.

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 Message 39 by ringo, posted 03-16-2007 3:09 PM ICANT has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 662 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 39 of 1864 (389898)
03-16-2007 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by ICANT
03-16-2007 2:41 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
ICANT writes:
What part of an egg is not an egg? The shell, the white, or the yoke.
No part of an egg is an egg. No part of a dozen is a dozen.
No part of a god is a god.

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 Message 38 by ICANT, posted 03-16-2007 2:41 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 53 by ICANT, posted 03-16-2007 11:15 PM ringo has replied
 Message 199 by Phat, posted 07-21-2016 9:57 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18633
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 40 of 1864 (389903)
03-16-2007 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by ringo
03-16-2007 3:09 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
Ringo writes:
No part of an egg is an egg. No part of a dozen is a dozen.
How about the number, Infinity? If we chopped Infinity into two parts, would each part be finite?

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ringo
Member (Idle past 662 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 41 of 1864 (389908)
03-16-2007 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Phat
03-16-2007 3:29 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
Phat writes:
If we chopped Infinity into two parts, would each part be finite?
Each part would be finite on the cut end.
And if we cut it in three, we'd have two pieces that were infinite on one end and finite on the other, and one piece that was finite on both ends.
(Watch the math gurus demolish that one. )

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Delta
Junior Member (Idle past 6460 days)
Posts: 7
Joined: 03-16-2007


Message 42 of 1864 (389918)
03-16-2007 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by ringo
03-16-2007 12:56 PM


Ringo wrote :
======
Hi, Delta. Welcome to EvC.
(There's no need to post the same thing in two threads. We'll find ya. )
I'm pretty sure my comments would be off-topic in the other thread, so I'll try my luck here:
=========
Sorry, I'm new in this forum, I made a mistake, and neither I know how to right quote your message
=============================
But when Jesus was challenged by the Jews, He said:
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
==========
This is true
But read the whole psalm 81 versicle's
81:1. A psalm for Asaph. God hath stood in the congregation of gods: and being in the midst of them he judgeth gods.
And then, see what Jesus has to say :
Matthew 5:48, "Be ye therefore Perfect, even as YOUR Father which is in heaven is Perfect."
As He seemed to say : Be gods ... "perfects like God"
and more, listen to the bible and the same John Gospel :
"Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." - Joh 17,3
And Romans 3,30 :
"For it is one God, that justifieth circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith."
And much...much...much others versicles..
I remember you this very important versicle :
(Genesis 1,26)
And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness (...)
Look you in the mirror....what do you see ?! an image of you...but that image doesn't make You...it is just like you, that's is...your image onto "other dimension"
If there is a God...and if there is a God's word to mankind...
then :
His word must not abrogate Jew's ancestral belief, i.e., the Torah. The Gospels can't deny the Torah...
Neither must Koran disbelieve Jew's Torah or the Gospels, because Mohamed has born centuries later, it must not deny either the Torah or The Gospels...
Those who denies is a fake, because
There must be NO CONTRADICTIONS or GOD's abrogations of His own words
The bible, the revelation to mankind must be understood as ONE...as Jesus is ONE with the father...and Holy Spirit
============
Almost anything can be described in a threefold manner. You could talk about the Trinity of Cats: the Eyes, Ears and Whiskers. You could talk about the Trinity of Ice Cream: Chocolate, Vanilla and Stawberry.
That doesn't mean it inherently has a threefold nature.
============
Yes, that's true
But...What makes you to be YOU ?
Your hears ? your whisker or beard ? or is your body ... and that strange things like thoughts,contemplations, and cogitations, and dreams ?
Your body is asleep but your mind dreams, Why ?! nobody does know
====
By your logic, then, God can only assume that we don't understand Him.
====
Yes
How can we understand infinity of a entity-Being ? the eternity ?
What is eternity ? living forever ? do you imagine praying all over minute by minute...hour by hour...day by day ?
Isn't that monotonous ? a Hell monotonous paradise ?
Nobody knows How paradise looks like, How God truly is
we just are allowed to know that there is full of joy and happiness, but....nobody knows How it looks like...unlike Hell, but even about this terrible place we just have a cloudy view/notions
Nobody can tell you what is the Truth, but you must find it by your own....
If you believe in God, of course....pray to Him....open your hart...and He should answer all the questions...the Holy Spirit Himself...as Jesus said He Should ... the comforter..
Edited by Delta, : No reason given.
Edited by Delta, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by ringo, posted 03-16-2007 6:14 PM Delta has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 662 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 43 of 1864 (389923)
03-16-2007 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Delta
03-16-2007 5:37 PM


You can do quotes like this:
[qs=Ringo]This is a quote.[/qs]
which will look like this:
Ringo writes:
This is a quote.
or like this:
[quote]So is this.[/quote]
which will look like this:
quote:
So is this.
You can also use the Peek button in the lower right-hand corner of every post to see how things are done.
-------------
I don't see anything in your post that's really about the Trinity.
Let's go slowly: How do references to multiple gods indicate a trinity?

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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Delta, posted 03-16-2007 6:49 PM ringo has replied

  
Delta
Junior Member (Idle past 6460 days)
Posts: 7
Joined: 03-16-2007


Message 44 of 1864 (389925)
03-16-2007 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by ringo
03-16-2007 6:14 PM


Ringo writes:
Let's go slowly: How do references to multiple gods indicate a trinity?
well, if you say multiple...you deny Torah, the new testament,i.e., the Holy Bible...
because you just can't deny all of this versicles ( and much others ) :
(Malachi 2,10)
Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why then doth every one of us despise his brother, violating the covenant of our fathers?
(Mark 12,29)
And Jesus answered him: The first commandment of all is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord thy God is one God.
(Mark 12,32)
And the scribe said to him: Well, Master, thou hast said in truth, that there is one God, and there is no other besides him.
(Romans 3,30)
For it is one God, that justifieth circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
(1 Corinthians 8,6)
Yet to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(Ephesians 4,6)
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.
(1 Timothy 2,5)
For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:
(James 2,19)
Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble.
(Psalms 110-1)
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
=======
But look closely to (Mark 12,29) and (1 Corinthians 8,6) and
(Psalms 110-1)
The Word LORD...
but look closely to other...there is ONLY ONE LORD ... (Mark 12,29) ... "the Lord thy God is one God"....
Is there another ?! no ...see here :
(Mark 12,32)
And the scribe said to him: Well, Master, thou hast said in truth, that there is one God, and there is no other besides him.
=====
Only Trinity...only a triune God make sense...
The bible must not abnegate itself or wouldn't be God's word
And the only way it doesn't is : God's triune nature
Edited by Delta, : No reason given.
Edited by Delta, : No reason given.

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 Message 43 by ringo, posted 03-16-2007 6:14 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by ringo, posted 03-16-2007 7:09 PM Delta has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 662 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 45 of 1864 (389927)
03-16-2007 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Delta
03-16-2007 6:49 PM


Delta writes:
well, if you say multiple...you deny Torah....
Not at all. The Torah has plenty of references to multiple gods:
quote:
Exo 15:11 Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?
quote:
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
quote:
Exo 22:28 Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.
(and not just in Exodus. )
Yahweh wanted to be the Numero Uno God of the Israelites, but He didn't consistently claim to be the only god.
Only Trinity...only a triune God make sense...
What I'm asking is, why does it "make sense"?
Why is the magic number three? Why not eleven?
The bible must not abnegate itself or wouldn't be God's word
The Bible has lots and lots and lots and lots of abnegations. We have a whole Bible Accuracy and Inerrancy forum for that.
So it must not be God's word?
It must be man's word about God - and man's understanding of God is imperfect. So man makes up ideas like The Trinity that "make sense" to him.
Edited by Ringo, : Fixed quote.

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