Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 84 (8942 total)
31 online now:
AZPaul3, DrJones*, jar, Lammy, PaulK, ringo, Thugpreacha (AdminPhat) (7 members, 24 visitors)
Newest Member: LaLa dawn
Post Volume: Total: 863,796 Year: 18,832/19,786 Month: 1,252/1,705 Week: 58/446 Day: 58/64 Hour: 10/13


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Anthropic Principal - Cosmology
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1932 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 61 of 69 (389847)
03-15-2007 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by bebotx1
03-15-2007 7:03 PM


PaulK writes:

(although it isn't quite a tautology if there was a God it could keep us going even in an environment we "shouldn't" be able to survive in).

Very good observation - I missed that.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Then maybe you might want to reconsider your OP, swallow some of your smart-arse comments, and think about this whole subject slowly from the beginning...

The Genesis gig was incredible... I've seen them do The Lamb before, which was exellent, but Supper's Ready tonight was truly religious ;)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 7:03 PM bebotx1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by bebotx1, posted 03-16-2007 8:12 PM cavediver has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20156
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 62 of 69 (389850)
03-15-2007 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by bebotx1
03-15-2007 6:27 PM


Re: God-did-it - the extravagant waste
yea, i guess I was just on about the AP thing.

But do you realize that your rejecting the "AP thing" has (a) no bearing on whether it is true or not and (b) does not mean that god-did-it is a logical answer.

The design type explanation could take a lot of forms I guess.

Including that the universe was created:

(1) 13.7+ billion years ago in such a way that the solar system formed 4.5+ billion years ago in such a way that life began here 3.7+ billion years ago and has evolved to it's current condition through evoltuions natural process.

OR

(2) last Thursday complete as we know it, including all our memories etc.

And that with no way to distinguish (1) from (2) or any position in between, the concept that 'god-did-it' is NOT testable or falsifiable, or that it can provide any real insight into how the universe functions.

Enjoy.


Join the effort to unravel AIDS/HIV, unfold Proteomes, fight Cancer,
compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click)


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 6:27 PM bebotx1 has not yet responded

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 69 (389857)
03-15-2007 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by bebotx1
03-15-2007 5:55 PM


Re: God-did-it doesn't help
Are you saying I'm lying about it being RD's point in the book.

No. I'm saying that you said it, and now you're trying to pawn it off on someone else who also said it. That's really exceptionally cowardly.

And I'm sorry to have to tell you but yes, it would count as a valid explanation for it being there.

What, exactly, was explained? Absolutely nothing. Not an explanation.

You can't just tack on extra conditions like intent and insist on them.

I didn't tack on anything. You said, (damn, you're bad at remembering these things,) "Yes of course if the earth was intentionally created it would be an explanation of why it was here." You introduced the importance of intent, not me.

Are you saying unless you can show intent it's false?

Nope. I'm saying, for about the fiftieth time, that unless you can actually define some terms, you aren't really saying anything. And not saying anything is not a valid explanation.

Every "explanation" you've offered up so far amounts to: something, somewhere, at some point, did something somehow for some reason or another. And that's how the Earth came to be!

Really, can't stress this enough... if nothing is explained, then no explanation has been given.

Edited by Dan Carroll, : clarity


"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 5:55 PM bebotx1 has not yet responded

  
Tusko
Member
Posts: 606
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


Message 64 of 69 (389862)
03-16-2007 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by cavediver
03-15-2007 2:16 PM


Re: God-did-it doesn't help
Thats interesting - I know its off topic but if you can spare the time I'd love you to explain this to me.

I MEANT your fourth option:

The Universe can be temporally infinite and not be created

But I obviously SAID something else... I just can't work out what!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by cavediver, posted 03-15-2007 2:16 PM cavediver has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by cavediver, posted 03-16-2007 9:25 AM Tusko has responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 65 of 69 (389863)
03-16-2007 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by bebotx1
03-15-2007 10:43 AM


bebtx1 writes:

The point is - it doesn't *explain* why we are here on this life sustaining planet.

Therein lies the problem, mate:

You don't actually think there is a reason why we are here do you?

What would make you think that?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 10:43 AM bebotx1 has not yet responded

    
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1932 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 66 of 69 (389865)
03-16-2007 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Tusko
03-16-2007 8:58 AM


Re: God-did-it doesn't help
But I obviously SAID something else... I just can't work out what!

You implied that a universe that had an infinite past was necessarily NOT created. I was just pointing out that an act of creation of the Universe does not have to be at any particular point in time or space, and a universe with an inifnite past and future does not preclude its creation by a higher-order entity.

We sometimes think about our own potential space-time manipulation capabailities in the far far future, and it is possible we could create our own infinite universes :cool: Sort of makes our current ability to "play God" seem rather pathetic...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Tusko, posted 03-16-2007 8:58 AM Tusko has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Tusko, posted 03-16-2007 10:08 AM cavediver has not yet responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 67 of 69 (389867)
03-16-2007 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by bebotx1
03-15-2007 5:17 PM


Re: God-did-it doesn't help
qsbebotx writes:

Well maybe you'd find that out along the way. If it was intentionally created perhaps you could get in contact with the creators or find clues about why they did it and what they were like.

Perhaps we could get in contact or find evidence in the future.

As of now though there is no such evidence and no reason to expect there to be other than as an answer to the quesstion you pose vis a vis 'why are we here'.

Asking the question rather presuposes an answer can be found.

Is it not the case that the very nature of the universe is why we exist? That atoms and molecules and energy exist and can combine in ways just so and this allows us to exist?

Any universe with the propperties of our own can allow life like our own to start just by chance: in an infinite universe (or universes)this is surely true?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by bebotx1, posted 03-15-2007 5:17 PM bebotx1 has not yet responded

    
Tusko
Member
Posts: 606
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


Message 68 of 69 (389872)
03-16-2007 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by cavediver
03-16-2007 9:25 AM


Re: God-did-it doesn't help
Gotcha!

Yes - the ability to make infinite universes certainly beats Spore.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by cavediver, posted 03-16-2007 9:25 AM cavediver has not yet responded

  
bebotx1
Member (Idle past 4510 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 69 of 69 (389937)
03-16-2007 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by cavediver
03-15-2007 7:24 PM


But how would you tell if it was the case?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by cavediver, posted 03-15-2007 7:24 PM cavediver has not yet responded

    
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019