too intelligent to actually be intelligent?

In the recently closed thread 'True science follows the evidence wherever it leads (The design of the eye)- it was stated by
Crashfrog in message #37:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"If the best- the absolute, tip top best designs in the history
of design- is unable to match the complexity and effectiveness
of the human body, isn't it proof that it is too complex to have been designed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------Also stated by Chiroptera in message #38:----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The human body is far too complex to have been designed by a sentient entity"
----------------------------------------------------------------------Forget what he means by "sentient" for now- I am just dying
to know how a design can 1. be so complex as to rule out a designer
and 2. is so far beyond intelligent that it proves an accident is
the only logical explanation. Where I come from (called the real world), the more intelligent a design is the smarter it proves the designer is!! This is why we Creationsts call a person smart enough
to come up with a design as intelligent as the human body GOD!!!
I (still) CDESIGN

How do you measure the "intelligence" of a design?
----------------------------------------------------------------------I measure the "intelligence' of a design by how complicated it
was to achieve the goal. When a feature of the body has to have many
functions working together to achieve the feature- and each functions
design is complex in and of itself- and everything has to have an exact order or it won't work at all, I call that intelligent design.You haven't answer my questions that opened this thread Crashfrog.

I love your sense of humor Chiroptera, I really do- I bet you are a blast to be around.---------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm also dying to find out who, exactly, is saying, "an accident is the only logical explanation."
---------------------------------------------------------------------Isn't the whole idea behind evolution about accidental mutations resulting in higher forms of life? By the way where ARE all the accidents that should be all around us? How come ,for instance,
we don't have like some monkeys with a mouth that ended up on the side of their head type of thing?
ICEdited by ICDESIGN, : No reason given.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Why, when we know that mutation and selection working together can produce the same kind of designs?
---------------------------------------------------------------------If "we" knew that mutation and selection produce designs then the 'big debate' wouldn't be going on. I know your side claims the above to be a fact but I disagree with those conclusions and so do a whole lot of other people. Going back to the computer simulating evolution by comming up with positive mutations- or whatever the heck it does- what is the 'natural' computer that evolution took place on.Its not even a true simulation when it took place on a man-made computer. ....look you guys wear me out with all these questions. I haven't studied the theory of evolution much because I disagree 100%
with its claims. No matter what you tell me -I will never believe something came from nothing without the help of God. I don't care what a man-made computer does!
Please don't bombard me with so much at one time. Will look over the various responses
and get back with you guy later. Bye the way, thank all of you
for caring enough to spend the time to correspond with me.
ICDESIGNEdited by ICDESIGN, : No reason given.

Hi Ringo,
---------------------------------------------------------------------
We do have the halibut and its near relatives, with both eyes
on the same "side" of its head - nicely adapted to its habitat
and lifestyle.
--------------------------------------------------------------------The issue for me is that their should be a zillion life forms
that have major malfunctions- not just a different body style
but features that came out way off.When you look at your face in the mirror all your features have
semidry (if I spelled that right). Anyway, how did everything
come out in the perfect position. Why would natural selection
get all the answers so right. (and lets don't get into all
the sidetracks like the retina, lets stay on the big picture)
IC

Look Mr. Frog,
I'm not going to get into the giant topic of "physical
Laws" with you. I would just like you to post your
answer for all to see on the quote I sited you made how
the body is so far past intelligent- that it proves
a designer is not possible. You talk about ignorance-
you have to be a complete moron to believe that statement!
IC

I have been answering questions Frog. For example you asked
me to define intelligence (which I can understand your not
knowing) and I gave you my definition. Now you answer the
same question. If the human body isn't an intelligent design
then you tell me what an example of an intelligent design
is, in your opinion of course.A bit later I will tell you exactly what I'm doing here OK?
IC

Jonicus,
Thank you for your kind and respectful feed back. One of
the many reasons that keep me from being able to believe
evolution happened as claimed is why aren't their a bunch
of the malformed life forms in the fossil record. I could
understand how they wouldn't survive- but shouldn't their
be a multitude of things that a non-thinking process
of natural selection got way wrong along the way?
IC

==================================================
Something that people made.
=================================================Thats it? I know you could do better if you try.
What is an example of an intelligent design and
what makes it an intelligent design other it being
"Something that people made"
ID

Crashfrog,When I ask someone else a question, I'll thank you
to stay out of it and let the person I asked corrispond
with me. Thank you.
IC

....I think much of what you say is mis-information,
1/2 truths, outright lies and bias opinion.
===================================================
Fossilization is rare. The odds of a single individual
being fossilized are fairly low.
====================================================While the odds are low their are still bountiful
finds on record. Their should be a multitude of creatures
that went haywire not just a few.Also, what is the mechanizm that causes random mutations to
make a correct "choice" without having the ability to
think. Choice requires the ability to decide which is
the better to go with-hense, intelligence.
IC

Well I want to hear from other people.
I'm tired of hearing your rhetoric quite frankly!

I'm sorry I called you a liar. I don't think
you intentionally lie-I just think the evolutionary
theory in general is made up of the things I mentioned
and the people that study it have been brainwashed.Here is what I keep asking but am getting no answers to
that aren't 1/2 truths and mis-information: How did all
our body parts end up in the right order grouped in
the right groups? Why, for instance, did our eyes come
out perfectly positioned above our perfectly positioned nose
above our perfectly positioned mouth etc.?How could all the functions of the ears come out perfectly
with such complex components causing proper hearing to happen
without intelligence being involved. ITS IMPOSSIBLE!!!All of this spells design not random mutation or natural
selection either one. no way no how.this is why I'm trying to teach you a thing or two about
what constitutes intelligent design -of which I still await
your answer on that matter.I have to get up at 2am so am gone for now.
IC

message retracted due to violationEdited by ICDESIGN, : No reason given.

If I'm so unarmed then you don't have a reason to be afraid
then do you? You keep refering to me as being too dumb
to have a reason to be on this site so I want everyone to be
watching when I cram it down your throat big mouth!