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Author Topic:   Abortion - Moments of (Mis)Conception
kongstad
Member (Idle past 2870 days)
Posts: 175
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined: 02-24-2004


Message 166 of 178 (390566)
03-21-2007 6:44 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Asgara
03-19-2007 9:08 AM


Re: Re-Abortion
Asgara writes:
No one thinks abortion is good rat.
I beg to differ. I think abortion is a very good thing. Just like I think open heart surgery is a good thing.
The ideal would be to have no open heart surgery what so ever, but when it is needed, we are very lucky to live in a day and age where we have this option. Just like we are lucky that it is possible to get an abortion when we need it.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Topic concerns when life begins.

Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Asgara, posted 03-19-2007 9:08 AM Asgara has not replied

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 167 of 178 (390573)
03-21-2007 8:15 AM


Warning - Off Topic
Message 1 is very specific about what is to be discussed.
1) Biologically is there a 'moment' or 'point' at which something non-human becomes something human?
2) Biologically (in the context of human development) is there a point at which something non-living becomes something living?
3) Does the argument put forward by opponents of abortion rely on defining such 'moments', 'points' or 'instantaneous boundaries' between that which should be considered human life and that which should not??
Please stick to the topic and not turn this into the same old arguments.
Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.
Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout.
Thank you Purple

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 168 of 178 (390591)
03-21-2007 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
03-07-2007 2:29 PM


Re-Abortion
1) Biologically is there a 'moment' or 'point' at which something non-human becomes something human?
2) Biologically (in the context of human development) is there a point at which something non-living becomes something living?
3) Does the argument put forward by opponents of abortion rely on defining such 'moments', 'points' or 'instantaneous boundaries' between that which should be considered human life and that which should not??
#1 I believe that at conception human life begin.
RAZD does the best job of trying to define the point of human life on his Index and Essays that I have seen. Even though I don't agree.
http://razd.evcforum.net/index.htm
#2 No, I believe they are living sperm and egg.
My sperm count is 0 and therefore i can not produce anything as I had a vas.
#3 Yes, the same position seems the same for pro-choice as well.
I think we have proved this point in the previous posts.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 177 by tudwell, posted 03-21-2007 6:47 PM ICANT has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 169 of 178 (390612)
03-21-2007 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by ICANT
03-21-2007 9:37 AM


Re: Re-Abortion
we know you think life begins at conception, you've spent four pages telling us that. now for godsakes give us a reason other than "there has to be a beginning". you don't have the option to not give evidence. that's what we're all about. so put up or shut up.
and just because you put that disclaimer about "just because i believe it doesn't make it true" doesn't release you from presenting evidence. follow the forum rules or find another hobby.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 170 of 178 (390623)
03-21-2007 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by nator
03-20-2007 11:17 AM


Why is ending life OK in one instance and not OK in another?
It's never ok nator, as I said earlier in this thread.
It's not a black and white issue, stop making it one.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Topic concerns when life begins.

Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 171 of 178 (390627)
03-21-2007 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Asgara
03-19-2007 9:08 AM


Re: Re-Abortion
The guilt was from being judged by others, from being told how terrible I was, from losing friends over a very personal decision.
I know this off-topic, so suspend me if you will.
But I just have to tell you Asgara, that I would still be your friend, regardless of your decision.
Anthony
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Topic concerns when life begins.

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AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Contents rendered invisible. If you must read, use the peek button; but do not respond to this off topic post.

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Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 172 of 178 (390638)
03-21-2007 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by riVeRraT
03-17-2007 10:31 AM


Deleted. Off Topic
Edited by Larni, : No reason given.

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Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 173 of 178 (390643)
03-21-2007 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by macaroniandcheese
03-18-2007 12:02 AM


Re: Re-Abortion
Deleted. Off Topic
Edited by Larni, : No reason given.

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LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4676 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 174 of 178 (390646)
03-21-2007 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by riVeRraT
03-21-2007 11:24 AM


Why then the difference
nator writes:
Why is ending life OK in one instance and not OK in another?
riVeRrat writes:
It's never ok nator, as I said earlier in this thread.
If it's not ok then why do you support the killing of the child of the person who was assaulted?
From the point of view of the human-at-the-point-of-conception crowd, isn't that the same as supporting a mother killing her two-year old son because her husband beat her up?
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Topic concerns when life begins.

Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Contents rendered invisible. If you must read, use the peek button; but do not respond.

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Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 175 of 178 (390718)
03-21-2007 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by LinearAq
03-21-2007 12:08 PM


Re: Why then the difference
Because a man who rapes a woman has no right to start a life. So to me, it should have never happened. I feel the man who rapes, should be charged with rape, and murder.
I admit, I could be wrong about this, in the eyes of a fetus, but it is my opinion. Given all the circumsatnces, and that a child needs a host, from time of conception, pretty much until it graduates highschool, this is an unfair burden on someone who did not wish this to happen to them.
And if God has anything to do with all of this, then God will take care of the rapest, and hold him accountable for his actions.
I think even in the bible OT that incertain circumstances the woman and the man got stoned to death in a rape situation, when the woman did not scream for help, when clearly help was available. Did God have mercy on the fetus then?
But to me, it's not really about religious views concerning rape, and abortion, it's all about liability, and responsibility. It's about playing games with life, and having respect for the process by which we are standing/sitting here debating.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Topic concerns when life begins.

Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Contents rendered invisible. If you must read, use the peek button; but do not respond.

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Replies to this message:
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kongstad
Member (Idle past 2870 days)
Posts: 175
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined: 02-24-2004


Message 176 of 178 (390725)
03-21-2007 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by riVeRraT
03-21-2007 4:49 PM


Re: Why then the difference
riVeRrat writes:
Given all the circumsatnces, and that a child needs a host, from time of conception, pretty much until it graduates highschool, this is an unfair burden on someone who did not wish this to happen to them.
So if a woman gets pregnant because the contraception fails you would also think an abortion would be OK? It would be the same argument as above, it would place an unfair burden on someone, who did not wish this to happen to them.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Topic concerns when life begins.

Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Contents rendered invisible. If you must read content, use the Peek button but do not respond.

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tudwell
Member (Idle past 5979 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 177 of 178 (390740)
03-21-2007 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by ICANT
03-21-2007 9:37 AM


Re: Re-Abortion
Straggler writes:
3) Does the argument put forward by opponents of abortion rely on defining such 'moments', 'points' or 'instantaneous boundaries' between that which should be considered human life and that which should not??
ICANT writes:
Yes, the same position seems the same for pro-choice as well.
I disagree. I'm pro-choice. I don't know when human life begins - in fact, I don't think it matters in the least. My take on the issue is that a women has a right to body autonomy. She should be able to control what goes in and out of her body. If she doesn't want a fetus there, it would be a violation of human rights not to allow her to remove it. Forced pregnancy and forced birth - two things your stance promotes - should be illegal. It doesn't matter if a fetus becomes a human the day it's born, the moment of conception, or twenty years previous. A woman has a right to control what's in her body.

This message is a reply to:
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AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 178 of 178 (390753)
03-21-2007 7:28 PM


OFF TOPIC!
As I said in Message 167, the OP has very specific questions.
Respect the originator's intentions and DO NOT continue discussing abortion beyond the scope of the OP.
Anyone continuing the off topic discussion will be suspended for 24 hours.
Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.
Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout.
Thank you Purple
Edited by AdminPD, : Update

  
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