Who's More Moral?

i'm sorry, this makes no sense. isn't your survival a compelling enough of a reason to be good?and you'll note, I hope, that arguments from authority get nowhere here (which is precisely what you have done with the Kai Nielson quote).instead of relying on arguments of authority, how about actually proving your case?

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what do you mean by survival, though? Personal survival? What of survival of the family or group? Which is more important for humans? I'd say the latter. Your death, should it help the survival of your group, would be a good act, then.oh, and he quoted Nielson, not Lewis (for a change).

you know, generally speaking, an apprenticeship is a willing partnership of sorts. I don't ever recall agreeing to be your apprentice, or for you to be my mentor.And be careful how you bandy around the term "survival". As I just told anastasia, there are multiple levels for it. Sure, we all die. But survival isn't thought of in those terms. Nothing can defeat old age (as of now). So when we use "survival", we mean it more in terms of not dieing from old age. And then you have this thing called "group survival", which is very important to us humans. You would give your life to save your family, no? That is a good act. The survival of the group is more important that your own singlular survival.i ask again, isn't survival a compelling enough reason to be good?

problem is, this is what rob wrote in other words, he is stating that in a naturalist framework, good = survival. if good = moral, then moral = what leads to your survival.and he still hasn't really answered my question. You have, twice. of your morality. but if moral = survival, then destruction of your enemies (whatever they may be) becomes a moral act.I'm still waiting for rob to answer my question (and yes, he "answered" it once, but I asked a second time, with a deeper explanation, so . . .)

hey man, it's not my fault you can't make your life meaningful without god. it's not my fault that you cannot live "for the moment" (and by that, I mean living this life to its fullest, as best you can) without some form of promise. It's not my fault you need to be punished by the threat of hell to do what's good or right. It's not my fault you can't imagine other humans as being being worthy of you "caring" about them without god existing. it's not my fault that you can't recognize the granduer of life without god's existence. and it's not my fault that you cannot imagine a worthwhile life without a big guy in the sky watching over your every little step.you know, it's good that you believe in god. because otherwise, you probably would go and murder people and whatnot, because as you say, there's no reason to be good in this "false" existence (neverminding that that's quite wrong).seriously man, your idea of morality is quite, well, immature.

funny definition of absolute. most i've seen involve it being unchanging (which in some way yours is). but i digress. before you head off for the night, i've some new devepolements that I would like to talk about (if you don't mind).

the shift in civilization took much, much longer. and I'll do you one better. The French Revolution (all 25ish years of it) more quickly affected the society of Europe than did Jesus's ministry affect the roman empire.Heck, you could argue that a single terrorist attack more thoroughly changed the US in a single day than jesus' affect on civilization.and I wouldn't call his affect on civilization "so profound". just what change did he affect?

i hate to waste another post with this (too late). i really need to chat tonight with you.

i'm wasting yet another post here (and hoping the admins don't suspend me over this). as soon as you can, i need to chat to with you. (and if you could check the thread "Official Invitations to Online Chat@EvC" (http://EvC Forum: Official Invitations to Online Chat@EvC -->EvC Forum: Official Invitations to Online Chat@EvC) i wouldn't have to grab your attention on your thread.