governor of ohio removes abstinence-only program from budget

I think that this argument is one of the most destructive attitudes parents can have towards their kids. You cannot protect your children from reality no matter what generation you live in. If it is not rap music then it is the Beatles, or the swing dancing, or one piece swim suits, or dresses that reveal a ladies ankles.I am sure that you have a very good reason to be angry at your son's gym teacher and by no means do I have any right to question your parenting but don't you think it would have been better had you shown your son what popular fads are and why you agree or disagree with them?Again, not to question your parenting, me and my family are certainly not perfect in the slightest, but I was growing up I was curious about lots of things that my parents thought were disgusting. For me it was death metal music, violent video games, and rather than trying to shield me from these things my parents guided me through my discovery of them. I was able to explore these enticing aspects of reality without fear of reprisal or censorship. My mom would consistently say to other people who were critical of this type of parenting that she would rather know exactly what kind of music and entertainment I engaged in, exactly who my friends were, and be able to talk to me about those things then have me do all that behind her back. Adolescents WILL figure out a way to investigate the shadier aspects of the world with or without their parents consent. While people looked down at my mom for such an attitude I was borrowing their kid's secret Megadeth and Pantera CDs.This applies to sex education in the exact same way. To many parents have either no interest or don't think it is their responsibility to guide their kids about the topics and real world issues that they will inevitably be exposed to. They are more concerned with sheltering and censoring their kids than explaining how they should approach their curiosity and new discoveries in a healthy and ethical way. So while I might have been a goth kid, I never did drugs, I kept IT in my pants until I was ready, I graduated 2nd in my class, and went on to have a successful college and professional career.This country does not have a problem with "sex education". This country has a problem with parental accountability on a NUMBER of topics and sex education is just a social bandaid to try to make up for where our culture has failed. Not to say that we should abandon it because until there is a universal moral in our society to correct the underlying problem, public sex education is absolutly necessary. I don't think anyone would disagree that it would be better for kids to be getting this information from their family than from school. But they need to get it somewhere.Abstinence only education is a proven failure. Kids WILL wonder where that "thingi" goes regardless if their music of choice is Ringo Star, Elvis, or 50 cent. I am willing to bet that if you removed all music, TV, video games, and advertisements from our culture and replaced it with classical music, Sessame Street, and Canasta that you would still have the exact same problems with teen pregnancy today as long as parents, or the school system as a surrogate, are taking a hands off approach to REAL sex education.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

What if your kid WANTED those CDs? Do you really think that you forbidding his exploration into the musical stylings of 50 cent or Ja Rule is going to actually stop him? Maybe you have some kind of relationship with your son that I just don't understand but IMO the moment you said, "...as long as it..." you treaded immediatly into that territory of proscriptive parenting that I described earlier. Again, that may be okay for you and your family. I am just expressing what I think was not okay for our family and what I noticed NOT working in other families of close friends as I was growing up. While I don't totally disagree, I think there is a propensity in any given generation X to do things that the generation X-1 thinks is leading society into the pits of hell. If you can recognize that you can temper your disdain for new aspects of culture that you son is growing up in that you disagree with.I think little girls who idolize people like Paris Hilton as going too far. But I have to wonder how much of that is due to parents not caring about what their children do or parents who keep such a tight grip on their kids that they rebel behind their backs. It seems to me that if parents of these "outrageous" kids would have investigated the popular appeal of whatever behavior we think of as destructive that many of the actual outcomes would be different.The key here is that I feel like lording over your children is just as bad as tossing them to the wolves. My approach to teaching my son is as that of a Father-Friend rather than a Father-Master. I don't know if it is going to work out in the end but it did seem to work for me and my siblings.If I were you, rather than return or throw out those CDs, I would take you son to the CD store, have him buy a couple of the ones he wants the most, listen to them together, and talk about what is appealing about the music and if you really dis/agree with what the artists are saying. After that, if he still wants to listen to that kind of music, let him. To each his own though and I hope that however you handle the situation it works out for the better.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

Its good to know that those approaches to parenting work elsewhere. I mean, I have not read any parenting books to base my opinion on, to me it is just common sense. I guess that could be one criticism of my opinion.I suppose that as my child gets older I will probably take an interest in more formal representations of my UTP (Universal Theorey of Parenting). For right now we are working on blowing kisses and NOT throwing your sippy cup off your of high chair when it is empty.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

I said as much to RR in a subsequent reply that my personal opinion is that some of it goes too far and I used the Paris Hilton wannabes as an example.The problem is that I cannot objectively point at but I feel that there IS something fundamentally different from considering that picture you presented as too extreme compared to when my mom was given similar harsh judgment for wearing bell bottoms to school in her day.Sexualization may fit the bill as a measure but really that is the same logic that has consistently been used to denigrate the pop culture of my generation + 1. I remember in history reading about how controversial it was when the first 1 piece bathing suit came out for women so that they could ACTUALLY swim instead of play like little kids on the shallow end of the pool. We excuse that because that had to do with functionality yet today you don't call that same girl in the picture sexualized if she is in a Dora the Explorer one piece swimsuit. You WOULD however express disdain in the exact same manner that you did if you lived in the early 1900s.I am willing to bet that some people would say that such dress teaches girls to be less ashamed of their bodies. I don't agree with that but I can imagine the argument and its basis on the exact same subjective criteria you are using to say that it is wrong.Another issue might be to ask where is the line? Add 2-3 inches of cloth to the bottom of that shirt, stretch the seams on those pants a little bit and get rid of the word "Babe" on the shirt and I would think that would be perfectly acceptable attire for a little girl. At what point between those two scenarios did the sexualization begin? I would claim that it began the moment an ankle length dress a petticoat was no longer standard fair in the closet of a girl that age although I would hesitate greatly to call it sexualization.In the end I don't think any of it matters if parents really love their kids and take a TRUE interest in the issues of today that get their little brains firing on all cylinders. It is the actions that our kids take in life that mean something, not what they wear, not what music they listen to. It does not matter what we think about teenage sex, Nichole Ritchie's fore into fashion, or Grand Theft Auto. Those things are not going away, especially the first one, and our kids are going to be curious about them. Many of them are perfectly willing to blatantly disobey their parents to investigate them for themselves if their parents don't fill the role of Tour Guide to the Real World.Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

There are few on this forum who can make me actually laugh for real. Sometimes I wish I could look at the world through your eyes. I would probably spend the first week laughing my ass off.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

You really think that some of these things are made with children in mind. Grand Theft Auto is a good example because it is targeted to the audience of adult video gamers that grew up at from the beginning of the video game revolution. I would never even think twice about NOT getting that game for a 10 year old yet my mom and wife who work in an elementary school talk about how some kids have told them that they got that video game for their birthday. In 3rd grade!Is it the video game manufactures fault for making the game or the parents fault for being flipping idiots about what they buy for their kids?I am not saying to go out and proactivly buy r-rated movies and gore filled video games for you kids, but when it reaches your home however it does, you have to deal with it. Now if my kid heard his friends talking about the game then that is a situation as a parent that I might have to address and I would take the same approach as I described with the music. IMO it is actually social networking that causes these things to spark interest in kids more than corporate advertising. All it takes is one retard parent who thinks it is a good idea to buy "Gods of War" before all the boys in the class are talking about it on the playground.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)