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Author Topic:   Denouncing religions ? [New to debate]
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 76 of 89 (392252)
03-29-2007 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by ringo
03-29-2007 10:33 PM


Re: Denouncing religions
You're still not answering the right question:
You are ignoring most of the post.
But that aside what part of my post did you not understand other than why I would include evolutionist as trying to prove all religion incorrect.
I said:
I would say yes in general from what I have read.
I would include that from what I read evolutionists are trying to prove all religion incorrect.
Now let me qualify my yes by saying everybody can not be correct.
At the risk of being called a lot of names let me say if what I believe is correct there are a lot of people wrong. If what I believe is incorrect there are a lot of people wrong.
From what I have read=what I have read on this forum.
What I believe=what I believe
I don't know how to make it any clearer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by ringo, posted 03-29-2007 10:33 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by ringo, posted 03-29-2007 11:57 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 81 by jar, posted 03-30-2007 10:48 AM ICANT has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 77 of 89 (392253)
03-29-2007 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by ICANT
03-29-2007 11:54 PM


Re: Denouncing religions
ICANT writes:
I don't know how to make it any clearer.
How about a simple "yes" or "no"?
Does your stand on evolution invalidate other religions?

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by ICANT, posted 03-29-2007 11:54 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by ICANT, posted 03-30-2007 1:38 AM ringo has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 78 of 89 (392261)
03-30-2007 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by ringo
03-29-2007 11:57 PM


Re: Denouncing religions
Does your stand on evolution invalidate other religions?
What part of evolution you talking about?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by ringo, posted 03-29-2007 11:57 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by ringo, posted 03-30-2007 1:42 AM ICANT has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 79 of 89 (392262)
03-30-2007 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by ICANT
03-30-2007 1:38 AM


Re: Denouncing religions
ICANT writes:
What part of evolution you talking about?
The whole thing. Every word that procedeth out of the mouth of Darwin, plus the neoDarwinist Testament. No waffling about micro/macro.
Does your stand on evolution invalidate other religions?
Yes? No?

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by ICANT, posted 03-30-2007 1:38 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by ICANT, posted 03-30-2007 12:01 PM ringo has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 80 of 89 (392295)
03-30-2007 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by ICANT
03-29-2007 7:37 PM


Re: Denouncing religions
ICANT writes:
Do you have something to base this belief on or is it just your opinion?
Howdy, ICANT!
I can field this one: at about age 4 yrs we develope a sense of other our own reality and the reality of other beings as 'intential beings'.
That is to say before this age we see other people as 'not like us'. People are counted as not being self aware and thinking exactly the way we do with no individual identity. If we know something, 'they' know it too.
This is called 'theory of mind'.
If we do have souls I would contend it starts here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by ICANT, posted 03-29-2007 7:37 PM ICANT has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 81 of 89 (392326)
03-30-2007 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by ICANT
03-29-2007 11:54 PM


Re: Denouncing religions
What I believe=what I believe
The question is, why do you continue to believe something that can and has been proven false?
You said:
I would include that from what I read evolutionists are trying to prove all religion incorrect.
Yet I have posted links for you to the absolute proof that that statement is false.
Again, here is yet more such proof.
We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children.
That is from an open letter currently endorsed and signed by over 10,000 US Christian Clergy and the full letter can be read here.
So direct question. Why do you continue to believe that which has been proven false?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by ICANT, posted 03-29-2007 11:54 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by ICANT, posted 03-30-2007 11:45 AM jar has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 82 of 89 (392335)
03-30-2007 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by jar
03-30-2007 10:48 AM


Re: Denouncing religions
So direct question. Why do you continue to believe that which has been proven false?
What makes you think because 10,611 clergy have signed a letter makes something I believe false. I said that from what I read on this forum evolutionists are trying to prove all religion incorrect.
What these clergy believe has absolutely no bearing on the conclusions I have come too from reading thousands of posts on this web site.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by jar, posted 03-30-2007 10:48 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by jar, posted 03-30-2007 12:00 PM ICANT has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 83 of 89 (392337)
03-30-2007 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by ICANT
03-30-2007 11:45 AM


Re: Denouncing religions
What makes you think because 10,611 clergy have signed a letter makes something I believe false. I said that from what I read on this forum evolutionists are trying to prove all religion incorrect.
Simple logic and honesty prove that what you believe is false.
You said evolutionists are trying to prove all religion is false. I happen to be both a Christian and Evolutionist. My simple existence proves your belief false.
However, it is also possible that I might be an outlier, a statistical anomaly, so I provided additional evidence, a list of over 10,000 other US Evolutionists who not only are not out to prove all religions wrong but whose profession is actually supporting religion.
Evolution has nothing to do with religion.
The Theory of Evolution does not in any way relate to religion.
Evolutionists in general are not out to prove religion is wrong.
There may well be individuals who are trying to prove religion wrong, but if so that is unrelated to whether or not they accept evolution.
So once again, why do you not only continue to believe something that is proven false, but to espouse such a false doctrine?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by ICANT, posted 03-30-2007 11:45 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by ICANT, posted 03-30-2007 12:45 PM jar has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 84 of 89 (392338)
03-30-2007 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by ringo
03-30-2007 1:42 AM


Re: Denouncing religions
Does your stand on evolution invalidate other religions?
My stand on anything including evolution or my belief in something or disbelief in something valadiates nor invalidates anything.
Just because I believe something does not make it TRUE.
Just because I do not believe something does not make it FALSE.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by ringo, posted 03-30-2007 1:42 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by ringo, posted 03-30-2007 12:14 PM ICANT has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 85 of 89 (392341)
03-30-2007 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by ICANT
03-30-2007 12:01 PM


Re: Denouncing religions
ICANT writes:
My stand on anything including evolution or my belief in something or disbelief in something valadiates nor invalidates anything.
So your answer to the OP question - as it applies to you personally - would be "No".
(You could have spared us the tap-dancing.)
Next, do you think that other Christians believe that their religion invalidates evolution?

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by ICANT, posted 03-30-2007 12:01 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by ICANT, posted 03-30-2007 12:48 PM ringo has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 86 of 89 (392346)
03-30-2007 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by jar
03-30-2007 12:00 PM


Re: Denouncing religions
So once again, why do you not only continue to believe something that is proven false, but to espouse such a false doctrine?
When did something become a doctrine because I believe it.
jar please realize I do not believe everyone that believes in some parts of evolution is trying to destroy religion. I for one am not and I believe in micro evolution.
I made the statement: that from what I read evolutionists are trying to prove all religion incorrect.
Message 71 From what I have read=what I have read on this forum.
How you can jump to the conclusion that somewhere in there I said ALL evolutionist is beyond my comprehension.
I may have caused a little confusion by not qualifying All Religion by not say all but their own.
Do I think what I believe about God, Creation, Evolution, The way we should live, What is going to happen after death is correct.
ABSOLUTELY 100% Does that make it true ABSOLUTELY NOT
Does that invalidate Islam, Buddhist, Hindu, Other denominations, or jar's religion, Absolutely not.
It just means if I am right a lot of people are going to wish I was wrong.
If I am wrong I lose.
Jesus said there is only one way.
Since everybody is dead set on proving their way the right way no one ever sits down and discusses the issues they just pound their theology and expect everyone to believe what they believe. jar you can conclude I mean all here.
Therefore I conclude that just about everybody is trying to invalidate all other religions but their own in one way or the other.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by jar, posted 03-30-2007 12:00 PM jar has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 87 of 89 (392347)
03-30-2007 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by ringo
03-30-2007 12:14 PM


Re: Denouncing religions
Next, do you think that other Christians believe that their religion invalidates evolution?
I am not qualified to think for other people.
I can only read what they say and draw conclusions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by ringo, posted 03-30-2007 12:14 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by ringo, posted 03-30-2007 12:56 PM ICANT has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 88 of 89 (392349)
03-30-2007 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by ICANT
03-30-2007 12:48 PM


Re: Denouncing religions
ICANT writes:
I am not qualified to think for other people.
I'm not asking you to think "for" other people. I'm asking you to think about other people.
I can only read what they say and draw conclusions.
I'm asking you, "What are your conclusions?"
Do you think that other Christians believe that their religion invalidates evolution?
(Please, can you stop all the evasions and just discuss the topic?)

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by ICANT, posted 03-30-2007 12:48 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by ICANT, posted 03-30-2007 8:47 PM ringo has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 89 of 89 (392382)
03-30-2007 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by ringo
03-30-2007 12:56 PM


Re: Denouncing religions
Message 85
Next, do you think that other Christians believe that their religion invalidates evolution?
I really believe that is asking me what I think other people believe means I would have to think for them to know what they believe.
"What are your conclusions?"
This one is a little easier.
There are a few that their names have been tossed around this forum that I conclude that they would believe that their religion invalidates evolution and all other religions but their own, In fact anybody that disagreed with them. I won't repeat their names.
Then there are a few that believe their Christianity is compatible with anything but other peoples Christianity.

Just because I believe it that does not make it true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by ringo, posted 03-30-2007 12:56 PM ringo has not replied

  
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