Why Are Christians Afraid To Doubt?

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A flawed example. The "subjective truth" wasn't truth at all.

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Right.That's exactly my point, so the example was the opposite of "flawed".Remember what I wrote:But "subjective" truth is only true for an individual. "Objective" truth is true for everybody, no matter one's personal beliefs.In my example, the person who thought he could jump off a cliff and survive was wrong, but he was only shown to be wrong when he put his subjective belief to the test.Let me try another example.You go to a museum and see a painting that you find beautiful. In a poll of museum attendees for that day, you are the only person who found that particular painting beautiful.Can we then say that you are wrong that the painting is beautiful?No, of course we cannot, because what individuals find beautiful is subjective only to them.Religious faith is subjective.Remember, this is what you were responding to when I jumped into the fray: And you replied:

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I'm breathing. Now I'm not infallible, so I recognize that there is some strange, remote possibility I could be mistaken about this fact. Just how much time should I spend doubting that I am breathing? Hmmm? What profound insight is to be gained? How will it profit me in any way to doubt that I'm breathing, just because I'm not infallible.
I contend that there are dozens, nay hundreds of issues it is foolish to go about doubting. So teach me, if you can. Convince me that confidence is never warranted, or grant that some issues aren't worthy of doubt. Perhaps we can make progress from there.

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Now, there is a big difference between the objective question, "Is CTD breathing?" and the subjective question, "What is the validity of CTD's personal insights about the existence of God, the divinity of Jesus, the truth of Christian doctrine, etc."?

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I trust you'll have no problem explaining this great difference, in that case.

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One "trusts" because there is evidence to warrant it.One has "faith" in spite of there being no evidence to warrant it. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

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Like when I said "Maybe 'children tend not to doubt their parents' is what you're getting at?"

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Sort of, but that is too simplistic an answer, as I explained in my last post that you are avoiding answering in any detail, apparently.

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Of course you can't simply reply "yes."

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No, not when "yes" is a woefully inadequate way to address the issue I was dealing with.

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You have to call my view "a rather naieve statement", while saying the same thing in a lot more words. Am I supposed to be impressed, or confused?

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Ideally, you are supposed to respond to the argument.BTW, I was going to call your view "ignorant" but I chose "naieve" because most people find the use of the other word insulting.And dude, your posts have been pretty ripe with swagger and disdain since you got here. If you can't take it you shouldn't dish it out. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Nator:It's not my religion. It was started by a man named Jesus. (The guy you respect right?) All started in earnest when He rose from the dead.Nator:There is no end to doubt... But I keep finding the answers.You're the one who doesn't doubt. You know you're right don't you? You don't even have to be able to explain yourself.And that is why you are so offended. You're up on this pedestal with the 'smart people'. Those who know... 'that you can't know'.I do respond to people's posts, you just don't like the answer.Nator:Well, then stop it! Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

I think doubt is one of those large parts of life where an extremist view in either direction is rather... incapacitating.A life filled with doubt, would be incredibly neurotic and limiting. A quick thought-process with this in my head led me from never leaving the house to never getting out of bed to even holding one's breath until they pass out (if that's possible).A life with no doubt... needing proof for everything would lead one... well... I just went through the exact same thought-process... leaving one passing out in their own bed. Funny how those both came out to the same thing For me, I doubt when I can afford to, and get proof as required. Getting out of bed? I'm going to be okay with assuming the air isn't toxic. Driving to work? I'm alright with guessing that everyone'll stay on their side of the road. Of course... my life is rather important, so that doesn't stop me from keeping a sharp eye on as many different vehicles as I safely can. My ideals and personal beliefs? Too important for me to rest on anything I can't fully support and substantiate.Is it ever appropriate to take a stand? Of course. Again, depends on how important the subject matter is. Talking to a buddy about Bo Jackson's yardage when he was a running back? I have no problems with taking a stand at 7,000 yards. I really have no idea, but hey, if he really cares, he should look it up himself. My girlfriend says someone was mean to her that day? I'll take a stand and try to console her, and be there for her. I'm not going to interrogate her to make sure there's proof that this all really happened, that would be rude, and incredibly hurtful to our trusting relationship. Now, if someone says my eternal soul rests on acceptance of what they have to tell me next... I'm going to need something more then just a few words. And if it's my eternal soul that's at stake, I'm going to need something I can show others as well. I'd hate to find out at some point that I fooled myself on that one.End up being wrong with not believing? Well, if there even is any judgement on that... if something wants to criticize me for being a little protective of my eternal soul (as far as I know, I only get one...) maybe they don't quite understand the importance of it either...That's my thoughts on doubt, anyway. Basically, my doubt increases along with the importance of the subject matter.Of course, if everyone did things the way I did... I may just stay in my bed holding my breath 'till I pass out from the boredom

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It's not my religion. It was started by a man named Jesus. (The guy you respect right?) All started in earnest when He rose from the dead.

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Stop being willfully obtuse, Rob.You know perfectly well that I was talking about "your religion" in the sense of "the religion you are promoting to others and believe in yourself."It's asanine, childish games like this that really make you incredibly annoying, Rob.

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You're the one who doesn't doubt. You know you're right don't you?

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No.I have no idea if I'm right about the existence of God. I'm not even sure if the answer is knowable by anybody. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Nator:That's fine Nator... I don't have a problem with that! Preach it sister. I won't tell you it is offensive to me.Why is it that you have such a problem with me believing the way I do, and presenting it to others in as intellectually coherent a manner as possible?What is actually arrogant (something we as humans suffer from) is to call me and others names like 'Fundie' and 'Arrogant' without addressing what it is in particular I said that is false.What sin am I committing? Not bowing at the alter of Shraff? Not approaching you with fear and trembling? Are you above me, so that I must only speak when you feel it is right?What is right?
What is wrong? So what Nator? That is not arrogance!I also promote the legitimacy of mathematics. I believe in it, and wish others to do so too!Does that make mathematics my math?Does my acceptance of the physical laws make them mine?What about words themselves? If I believe that no means 'no' and yes means 'yes', is that my idea... or a simple and irrefutable reflection of reality?Hmm?Law is law, and morality is morality. How do we make sense of it?It is the same thing Nator... Logic is logic!Christianity is the only logical answer to the many existential questions and their appearent incompatability.We seek unity in diversity. It provides!And beyond the intermediate sufficiency of one strand or another within the system, it begins with the most incredible notion ever supposedly invented by four fisherman... that of the Trinity.We seek unity in diversity in the effect (creation) and Christianity is the only religion / philosophy / worldview / culture... that offers that in the first cause (God). Where we find unity in the diversity of community in the Trinity. (that is not my observation but that of Dr. Zacharius).Perhpas there is another answer maddam, but you do yourself no service by attacking the only one that has been posited by anyone... ever!.I am more than willing to let you be...Please allow me the same curtiousy. Thank you... Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Nobody has accused you of being coherent.Coherency would start with being somewhere in the neighbourhood of the topic: Why are Christians afraid to doubt?Please answer that question in 25 words or less (all of them your own).

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RingoSpeaking for myself, I'll answer in two words:I'm not!The question is flawed because of it's presupposition.

None the less, that is this question.Allow me to demonstrate:(Some) Christians are afraid to doubt because their faith is weak. They are afraid that questioning anything will destroy their faith, leaving them with nothing.25 words.

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Ringo:Wow!Really?Nah,say it ain't so...

Actually... this is the question as per Phat:Topic Question: Discuss why Christians or anyone else should or should not doubt, and whether it is ever appropriate to take a stand rather than remaining ever questioning and uncommitted.Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

Rather than attacking the beliefs of others, I have always (Hmm maybe not always) found that it is better to provide the sufficiency of one's own belief system.You see? ANYONE?
By explaining why I am a Christian, and why it makes sense, I am giving the implicite answer to why the opponent in question is incorrect in his or her analysis.But that is disregarded as "PREACHING", and often (very often) labeled as off topic.So, you can't win...Neat trick!

That illustrates why it's important to always be questioning your game plan and changing it when it doesn't work.

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From the OP. There are a very few areas where one can be sure and after initial questioning, someone can say certain things are proven. For example, that would be true in mathematics.There are other areas where you can be near sure, with a very high level of confidence. That Evolution happened, that the Universe is old, that there was never a world-wide flood, that there was no Garden of Eden would fall into that class. In those things the evidence is so overwhelming, so confirmable that only the very smallest doubt remains.Finally there are areas where doubt should be the norm. That would include areas such as the existence of GOD as well as other areas where it is impossible to know, test or verify the answer. In those areas the individual should always continue to doubt, to question.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Ringo:A cynic never changes his game plan. He is what he is... But I digress.If a student fails a particular class, it is not necessarily because of the technique of the teacher. Especially when said technique, has the authority of many generations of teachers, including the founder of the said discipline.What if the student really doesn't care to learn?What if the student insists that 1 and 1 make 5?Should the teacher disavow the rules of mathematics so as to pass the student and bow for, and to, the student's fear of negative, though reality based, self-image issues?A good teacher is always improving his techniques yes. How keen. But the class is still mathematics. He simply learns the games that the kids play.If you look back at a good teachers history, you will see a marked change in strategy for staying on top of the students, who's constant and tribal urge, is to cut the authority out from under him, so as to intimidate and tempt him to accept a bribe in exchange for a passing grade.
So, the teacher grows, but the conviction remain.On the other hand... a bad student... is just a bad student. You can't force a man to learn. You can only continue to teach without compromise. Whether he grows or not, is not the teachers responsibility other than to give the appropriate failing grade. F