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Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Get Over Your Fear of Atheism | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If I didn't believe in God or the Bible, I would WANT to abandon the clean life I have lived up to this point - for the sake of pleasure. Why? I think attitudes like that show why most Christians are seen as far less moral than most Atheists. Basically that statement strongly suggests that Christians are some subspecies of mankind that is incapable of the behavior seen in the average Atheist. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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mpb1 Member (Idle past 6138 days) Posts: 66 From: Texas Joined: |
Allow me to clarify... I have only had s-x with one woman in my life - my wife - because of what I believe. That is where the greatest temptation lies with me personally.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
I have only had s-x with one woman in my life - my wife... And lil' ol' atheist me with two, one of them nearly 40 years ago before I was married to the second one. Plenty of non-Christians and non-believers have moral codes too, y'know. Added by edit: You can say "fuck" here if you wish. No nannybots. You can say "s-x" too, of course. Edited by Coragyps, : No reason given.
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mpb1 Member (Idle past 6138 days) Posts: 66 From: Texas Joined: |
I'm just being honest, that's all...
It would be easier to lie and pretend I was supremely moral on my own. But I am not. My belief in God and His Word protects me, even if I'd prefer not to obey some of His rules. But if the Bible is true, and you stand before God one day, by HIS standards, neither you nor any other person will make it into Heaven on their own. IF the Bible is true, then your goodness won't do you a bit of good on Judgment Day. Forgive the preaching. We're all telling it like we see it. This is how I see it. - Edited by mpb1, : No reason given.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
All christians I have known, especially the ones that took one of those no-sex-before-marriage vows, have had sex before marriage. Heck, even one who wouldn't stop telling me how sexual immorality would get me to hell ended up pregnant. So, obviously christianity is not responsible for keeping a person "clean" in the manner that you speak of.
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mpb1 Member (Idle past 6138 days) Posts: 66 From: Texas Joined: |
You're right. The stats. show that Christians are just as bad as everyone else.
But if you actually try to follow the rules, you sometimes wish you were an atheist - at least every now and then -
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Allow me to clarify... I have only had s-x with one woman in my life - my wife - because of what I believe. That is where the greatest temptation lies with me personally. That's fine. But again, Atheists face the same exact temptation. And like you, many remain in monogamous relationships. What you are saying is that you are somehow less able to control your own behavior without some outside referee than the Atheist who behaves just as you do. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
mpb1 writes: So your question really has no answer because it is based on a false premise. Wow, never new I was a false premise Maybe I don't even exist! I've never done good deeds because I believed God told me too. And I had a very christian upbringing. When I was young, I did good because my parents told me too, and I couldn't watch TV if I didn't. Now I do good because it's the right thing to do. I want to increase the amount of good in this world, I believe good is right, and I think that one of the best ways to help make this world a better place is to do good works.
If we had righteousness in ourselves, this world would not be in the mess it is today. That doesn't seem to follow at all. I don't think all of us have righteousness in us. But I do think that a lot of us do. Perhaps even most. That is, I don't think it's an innate sense, but that most of us have learnt righteousness. I also think it's not easy to monitor that righteousness and act in an appropriate manner. This leads us to many people ignoring it, or acting poorly. Which, of course, leaves our world in the mess it is today. Of course, this doesn't mean there aren't those who have learnt righteousness, and monitor it and act accordingly. They just seem to end up in a minority most of the time. Or perhaps, just not very vocal. I do agree, though, that if everyone had this righteousness and acted upon it correctly, the world would not be in this mess. Yet, being in this mess hardly means that no one is a good person, or that "we all choose to do wrong".
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mpb1 Member (Idle past 6138 days) Posts: 66 From: Texas Joined: |
jar,
In this case, I suppose you're right. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Stile, I have no problem granting that you may very well be more of a moral person - naturally - than I am. But by God's standard, "The wages of sin is death," any sin will keep us out of Heaven - apart from grace through faith in the Son of God. So no matter how moral you or anyone else is, if the Bible is true, then all sin will be judged, and those who have not trusted in Jesus Christ as Lord and savior will receive the Judgment of God because they refused to accept the sacrifice of His Son. - Edited by mpb1, : No reason given. Edited by mpb1, : No reason given.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
mpb1 writes: IF the Bible is true, then your goodness won't do you a bit of good on Judgment Day. But, if goodness isn't good enough on Judgement Day. Then whoever's doing the judging isn't good.
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mpb1 Member (Idle past 6138 days) Posts: 66 From: Texas Joined: |
Stile,
If the Bible is true, then He did all He could do. It teaches that God is holy and just, and must punish sin. So He sent His only Son as the sacrifice to pay for our sins. If we refuse to accept His sacrifice, that's not His fault. As far as the people who've never heard the Gospel, the bible teaches we will all be judged by the amount of "light" we had. -
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
mpb1 writes: I have no problem granting that you may very well be a more more moral person - naturally - than I am. Heh. I don't think morality is at all "natural". I think it's learnt. That is, when each of us were born (neglecting any brain abnormalities) we had the exact same potential to be the most moral people in history. I'm sure some people get a bit of an advantage in certain maturing environments. Yet, we all have the ability to learn and change into any level of morality we would like to attain. If you can imagine being "that good", then you are capable of it. Of course, you're also capable of all the temptations you can imagine, too
So no matter how moral you or anyone else is, if the Bible is true, then all sin will be judged, and those who have not trusted in Jesus Christ as Lord and savior will receive the Judgment of God because they refused to accept the sacrifice of His Son. That's nice. Like I said, if being good isn't good enough, then this God doing the judging isn't good. And therefore isn't worth following, or accepting anything from. If only he'd have gone to kindergarten and learnt to share...
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Well, that makes you kind of a scary, defective sociopath, doesn't it?
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mpb1 Member (Idle past 6138 days) Posts: 66 From: Texas Joined: |
I think standards of "goodness" are different.
The world's "good" does not equal the Bible's "obedient." I explained my personal temptations above... -
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
crashfrog writes: I envision this as a thread where what it means to live as an atheist can be explored, and what, if anything, is lost or gained when the choice is made to abandon self-deception and embrace atheism. I really don't see my life as an atheist as different from any general life. I go to work every day. I pay my bills. I try to be a good person. I screw up. I repent for screwing up. I think about the things everyone thinks about. I think about the things theist's think about. It just seems to me, for the most part, I can replace the word "God" for "good" and any theistical thoughts or ideals transfer very neatly over to an atheistical viewpoint. I don't know if I can pinpoint a day or time when I actually stopped believing in God. I grew up in a Catholic household. There was definitely a time when I believe in God. And now I definitely do not. I do remember a few specific epiphanies along the way. But I don't remember any sense of loss, or real gain, either. Just more of an "oh, yes, this makes more sense". And moving on. Being an atheist really isn't that big of a part of my life. Althought I do like to discuss it here
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