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Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Get Over Your Fear of Atheism | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3457 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:You would think so since those consequences are in realtime and not postponed to some later unknown date. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
GDR writes: Stile writes:
This is a strawman. How could someone possibly believe that their God is the only source of goodwill, when there are millions of people who are living, physical proof against this? Or even the billions of people who believe that some other God is the source, and they too live extremely good lives each and every day? Of course it is. That's my entire point, that this line of thinking, this whole entire idea, is a strawman. I was replying to:
mike the wiz writes: ..that you [atheists] don't have the burden of worrying about what God thinks of your actions, you don't have the guilt, the worry incase you sin, or the obligations, to pray etc.. Which is, of course, a strawman. Thank-you for so explicitly pointing it out.
GDR writes: Christianity teaches that by accepting Christ as Lord one has their conscience invigorated. This does not necessarily make him more a person of good will than his next door neighbour. The only person it should make him better than is the person he was before. I agree. Which also proves my point (and yours) that the statement I took from mike the wiz's post was a strawman. I don't even think he meant it in the way I took it. But, as you've so graciously explained, in and of itself it certainly is a strawman. ... strawman ... Just thought that maybe we needed to use the buzzwords, or something
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 1.9 |
Stile writes:
It is obvious that being subtle doesn't work that well with me. Of course it is. That's my entire point, that this line of thinking, this whole entire idea, is a strawman. Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
Which also proves my point (and yours) that the statement I took from mike the wiz's post was a strawman. Like Donald duck proves that ducks can talk. Stile, are you acting a stool?
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein. Take comments to the Moderation Thread. AdminPD Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
mike the wiz writes: Like Donald duck proves that ducks can talk. Stile, are you acting a stool? I, uh... don't know if you're joking around, or insulting me If you want to talk about something, it would help if you were a bit more specific. I understand that these last few posts were confusing. I took a certain point from your post out of context and dealt with it on it's own... GDR did the same thing with one of my points... are you now doing the same thing to complete the circle? Again, if there's anything you feel I mis-represented, let's talk about it. If not, and you're just having fun... uh... *high fives*
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
It is better to be a Calvinist than an atheist.
Thank God for freedom of thought. OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein. Take comments to the Moderation Thread. AdminPD Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
I'm just releasing some goon juices from my humour-bladder. Apparently everyone was under strawman's arrest.
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Fosdick  Suspended Member (Idle past 5500 days) Posts: 1793 From: Upper Slobovia Joined: |
Phat wrote:
Hi, Phat, Just make it clear that atheism is not for everyone, and each has to decide what is Faith and what is self deception. One mans self deception is not universally true for everyone. Please allow me to paraphrase this with a different twist: 'Just make it clear that reasoning is not for everyone, and each has to decide what is Faith and what is reasonable. One man's Faith is not universally true for everyone...but one man's reasoning could be universally true for everyone.' Think of Newton, for example, who understood the difference between reasoning and Faith. He proved rather convincingly that his universal gravitational constant applies to everyone universally. Could you be more specfic about what you mean by "self deception"? Self-deception is what an atheist hates most. ”HM
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mpb1 Member (Idle past 6138 days) Posts: 66 From: Texas Joined: |
NATOR SAID:
"He said that he would cheat on his wife if he stopped believing in god, and his justification for this was that if he was an Atheist he could do whatever the hell he wanted." This isn't what I said. If you're going to quote, please quote accurately. What you inferred from my statement is not what I said. --------------------------------------------------------------- Just FYI... I won't be replying on this thread any further - not for any particular reason. I simply have nothing else to add, and don't feel the need to explain or defend myself or my beliefs. Feel free to judge my previous posts any way you choose. Take care folks,Mark -
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Mark, if you should want to explore possible paths and solutions to the issues raised by Science and Christianity, I would be happy to point you towards some resources.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Personally I see no difference between atheism and deism as far as morals, behavior, etcetera go. There is no vengeful sits-in-judgment God that decides your end fate, but one off doing something else. My morality is not based on some cook-book recipe for salvation or fear of final retribution but rational social behavior - no different from atheists or agnostics.
The logical position is agnostic - the "we don't know" position. Either side of that is a choice, and atheists go one way, theists the other. Agnostics, atheists and deists agree that - generally speaking - we can't know god or god's purpose, we just disagree on the reasons. Either way the effect on personal morality is the same: we make choices that affect how we interact with other members of our species, which happens to be a social species, and those choices are based on our being a social species. Morality would be different for sharks, catbirds, antelope and starfish if they {could\would\should} think about such things.
I envision this as a thread where what it means to live as an atheist can be explored, and what, if anything, is lost or gained when the choice is made to abandon self-deception and embrace atheism. I don't think I've gained or lost anything compared to being an atheist: I've made a decision the same as an atheist has, with just as much self-deception as the atheist (ie - not choosing agnosticism), but also one not clouded by any deceptions of myths and fantasies either. Let the evidence show what is real. Enjoy. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5930 Joined: Member Rating: 5.8 |
NATOR SAID: "He said that he would cheat on his wife if he stopped believing in god, and his justification for this was that if he was an Atheist he could do whatever the hell he wanted." This isn't what I said. If you're going to quote, please quote accurately. What you inferred from my statement is not what I said.
With all due respect, Mark, it certainly looked to me like you had stated, repeatedly, what Nator summarized there. Could you please set the record straight, then, and explain what it was that you had actually said and in what manner you believe that Nator had misrepresented you?
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mpb1 Member (Idle past 6138 days) Posts: 66 From: Texas Joined: |
dwise1, this is part of Message 47:
---------------------------- "Nator, I think your point is a good one. I have to agree. As Christians, I think we sort of have it in our heads that the FIRST reason we do right is to obey God's commands. All other reasons seem to come after that... So if the question is, "Would I cheat on my wife if I were not a Christian?" then I would have to say, "I hope not" ...for all the good reasons you mentioned. But I think I was referring back to the moments when I began to doubt Christianity, and for several weeks I wondered if I could end up an atheist. During those times, I could sense a part of me almost wishing I could turn my back on Christianity, so I could do whatever the hell I wanted. Atheists have no "moral fence" around them, except consequences. Christians usually think of disobedience to God even before "consequences" to themselves or others. That's why I admitted near the beginning of this thread that I if ever walked away from the faith, it would probably be at least partially motivated by a desire to do whatever the hell I wanted - because that was the temptation I felt when I considered the possibility." ---------------------------- I just don't want to argue any more about Christian morality vs. atheist morality, or reasons any of us do or do not engage in certain activities. It's a pointless exercise... Thanks,Mark Edited by mpb1, : No reason given. Edited by mpb1, : No reason given.
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kjsimons Member Posts: 821 From: Orlando,FL Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
I just don't want to argue any more about Christian morality vs. atheist morality, or reasons any of us do or do not engage in certain activities. It's a pointless exercise... But this is the whole point of this topic! Christians and other religious faithfulls are always pointing out the evils of being an atheist because supposedly we atheists have no "real" morals. They are always equating atheist=amoral which is just not true. You yourself have this same ignorant view of what it is to be an atheist. If you don't want to discuss the central pont of this topic then why are you here?
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Parasomnium Member Posts: 2224 Joined: |
Mark writes: I just don't want to argue any more about Christian morality vs. atheist morality, or reasons any of us do or do not engage in certain activities. It's a pointless exercise... Would it still be pointless if it appeared that Christian morality and atheist morality are actually the same? I've "quoted" myself on this in another thread, and I say "quoted" because I never said what I quoted before I quoted it. But I'll say it again right here and now, if you can still follow me: I get my morality from exactly the same source as a Christian does, and it's not the Bible. I can prove that, challenge me. Mark, if you're still interested, I'd be willing to discuss this with you. Edited by Parasomnium, : No reason given. "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin. Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?
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