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nator
Member (Idle past 212 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 136 of 143 (38911)
05-04-2003 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by gene90
05-03-2003 2:05 PM


Re: Time to close this one down?
quote:
So, what do you think of them? Callous, insensitive, inappropriate?

Sure.

They are all those things.

But Moose probably isn't any more a real threat to the US government institutions than my cat is, and you know it, yet you have gone on and on and ON with this "treason" bullcrap.

He was blowing off steam in a way that obviously deeply offended you, and you want to make him shut up. That's all this really boils down to.

I think you are someone who likes to dish it out but can't take it.

Or, more accurately, you are someone who wants to be able to say what you want to but doesn't want to grant anyone else the same privilage.

[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 05-04-2003]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by gene90, posted 05-03-2003 2:05 PM gene90 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by gene90, posted 05-04-2003 2:15 PM nator has responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 212 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 137 of 143 (38912)
05-04-2003 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by gene90
04-30-2003 7:13 PM


quote:
Crowds of Iraqis celebrate and pull down a statue of Saddam as Baghdad falls.

Crowds?

A small crowd, maybe, and some, if not most or all of those were most likely trucked in by US forces.

That was a completely staged media event.

You can check out the wide shot, in which you see a small group of Iraqis surrounded by a large group of media people and vehicles, and a LOT of empty space in the square.

There is also a couple of photos to compare of a POW who was transported to the scene to be an "extra", apparently.

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/NYI304A.html

So, it seems that you are saying that we are the world's policeman and have the moral justification to topple "evil" governments all on our own as we see fit.

Hey, if we get a few billion barrels of high-quality oil for our cronies, um, I mean, US corporations in the bargain, it's just a coincidence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by gene90, posted 04-30-2003 7:13 PM gene90 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by gene90, posted 05-04-2003 1:56 PM nator has not yet responded

    
gene90
Member (Idle past 1866 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 138 of 143 (38931)
05-04-2003 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by nator
05-04-2003 9:04 AM


Hey Schraf, that's an amusing source. The "Centre for Research on Globalization"? And what exactly is "globalization"? The surrender of United States sovereignty to the UN? And you wonder why I called you a liberal? Is this not a liberal rag?

http://www.globalresearch.ca

Oh well people have a right to their opinion, no matter how ridiculous.

quote:
So, it seems that you are saying that we are the world's policeman and have the moral justification to topple "evil" governments all on our own as we see fit.

We have the same moral authority to topple Saddam as Clinton did with Kosovo. The only difference is that Bush is a Republican so you are against the war. I believe what we did in Kosovo was the right thing, even though I don't like Clinton.

I also don't think the UN has a right to tell democratic nations when they can go to war to defend themselves.

[This message has been edited by gene90, 05-04-2003]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by nator, posted 05-04-2003 9:04 AM nator has not yet responded

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 1866 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 139 of 143 (38932)
05-04-2003 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by nator
05-04-2003 8:34 AM


Re: Time to close this one down?
quote:
They are all those things.

Then why am I the only one that actually challenged Moose when he said that? Did you lack the gall to tell him it was tasteless?

Or to challenge him on his views?

quote:
yet you have gone on and on and ON with this "treason" bullcrap.

As I said, I have a long memory.

quote:
He was blowing off steam in a way that obviously deeply offended you, and you want to make him shut up. That's all this really boils down to.

Actually I want him to own up to it and defend his opinion, or retract it (that is, apologize). He has divorced himself from his comments and pretends like he never said them, not answering to my challenges. If Moose doesn't care enough to defend his offensive posts, he probably should shut up because if he can't take the consequences of free speech he shouldn't exercise free speech.

I'm not trying to censor Moose, as he censors (bans) others for saying things comparable to what he said on the moderated threads. But the Freedom of Speech is NOT Freedom from Responsibility! You have to live with the consequences of stupid and irresponsible things you say. I question whether a moderator should ban users for saying certain things on moderated threads, and then start a post in an unmoderated thread and say worse. I think moderators should hold themselves a little higher than that.

And one more thing. I think Moose is competent enough that he can defend his posts without your help, should he actually choose to do so. I don't think you or anyone else should try to prop him up or justify what he said because they aren't worthy of justification. You did agree that they are "callous" and "insensitive" so why do you oppose my protests of his post? If you really think they are "callous" and "insensitive" why didn't YOU say anything about it?

BTW, he already has shut up on the issue. A long time ago.

[This message has been edited by gene90, 05-04-2003]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by nator, posted 05-04-2003 8:34 AM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Adminnemooseus, posted 05-05-2003 12:37 PM gene90 has responded
 Message 143 by nator, posted 05-08-2003 10:02 AM gene90 has not yet responded

  
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3876
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 140 of 143 (39011)
05-05-2003 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by gene90
05-04-2003 2:15 PM


Moderation considerations
quote:
I'm not trying to censor Moose, as he censors (bans) others for saying things comparable to what he said on the moderated threads. {snip} I question whether a moderator should ban users for saying certain things on moderated threads, and then start a post in an unmoderated thread and say worse. I think moderators should hold themselves a little higher than that.

Please take this to the "Change in Moderation?" topic.

Adminnemooseus
-----

Despite being dim of wit, and poor of memory (aka a liberal ), I am slowly moving toward making a reply. That reply will be in the "State sponsored terrorism" topic.

Moose (minnemooseus)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by gene90, posted 05-04-2003 2:15 PM gene90 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by gene90, posted 05-06-2003 3:59 PM Adminnemooseus has not yet responded

    
gene90
Member (Idle past 1866 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 141 of 143 (39100)
05-06-2003 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Adminnemooseus
05-05-2003 12:37 PM


Re: Moderation considerations
Hi Moose,

I've made lots of accusations, mostly unfair ones at that, but I don't think I've ever called you "poor of wit" or "low of memory". If so, I promptly retract.

I do not object if you choose to close this topic.

[This message has been edited by gene90, 05-06-2003]

[This message has been edited by gene90, 05-06-2003]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Adminnemooseus, posted 05-05-2003 12:37 PM Adminnemooseus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Minnemooseus, posted 05-08-2003 2:40 AM gene90 has not yet responded

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3695
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001


Message 142 of 143 (39334)
05-08-2003 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by gene90
05-06-2003 3:59 PM


Re: Moderation considerations
Hi Gene -

How am I supposed to get worked up to a high quality leftest rant if you turn into such a massively nice guy?

quote:
I've made lots of accusations, mostly unfair ones at that, but I don't think I've ever called you "poor of wit" or "low of memory". If so, I promptly retract.

Sucker! I've succeded in disabling you by using a dose of self-depreciating humility (although a significant part of it is indeed true). Also, it was "dim of wit, and poor of memory".

Fortunately, I didn't get into a one-on-one "Great Debate" with you. Even though I do believe that your position is very wrong, your debate ability would have been overwhelming. Fortunately for me, it is an open forum, and a lot of others expressed my views for me. Still, I will eventually get back to the terrorism topic. There are certainly some points that I need to respond to.

In the Admin mode (Adminnemooseus) I would have normally closed this topic a long time ago, as being terminally off-topic. As is the case of the terrorism topic, however, I must disqualify myself as a moderator, as being too significant of a participent (or non-participent ) in the debate.

Have a nice day,
Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by gene90, posted 05-06-2003 3:59 PM gene90 has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 212 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 143 of 143 (39374)
05-08-2003 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by gene90
05-04-2003 2:15 PM


Re: Time to close this one down?
quote:
If you really think they are "callous" and "insensitive" why didn't YOU say anything about it?

Because I thought I understood that he was blowing off steam, and because emotions were running high at the time and I felt like giving him some latitude.

I am well aware that I have a pretty strong self-righteous, judgemental streak inside me, but it seems to be absolutely NOTHING compared to the one you have inside you.

There are plenty of offensive things you have said on this forum, Gene, that you have not owned up to or taken responsibiliy for, so I wouldn't be so eager to point fingers if I were in your shoes.

BTW, this will be my last post to you. I used to have a lot of fun in our debates, but these days I just feel seething vitriol coming from you rather than interested discussion. It's too bad.

Have a nice life, and I hope you come to realize that the world is not a black and white place and that you, and the US, are not isolated from the rest of the world.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by gene90, posted 05-04-2003 2:15 PM gene90 has not yet responded

    
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