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Member (Idle past 2492 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Why are all Christians atheists? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
I've just had a thought.
If all atheists burn in hell, and all Christians are atheist, then all Christians burn in hell. - I'm wearing my Bart Simpson trunks for the lake of fire. What are you going as?
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
What else is it other than "magic", Phat? Transcendant reality.
Why do you disagree? Because it's not evident that God is made-up. That might not be the case. It's just an opinion.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
What's that? Magic. -- Just a possible truth. I'm betting you already accept that there are mysteries to reality that far exceed human knowledge. Reality might go further than what we can experience and study. What we know might be true but might only be like the earth's crust - thin. Even probability alone can create results. Like winning the lottery - impossible before, but ertain afterwards. The universe itself is magic enough for me.
Do you mean that it is only an opinion that any superstition is made up, or just the one you subscribe to? Haha. That assumes it is a superstition. Well, it's like CS said in response to you - it's just not evident to believers, that God is made up. To you, you lump all gods in the same superstitious group. But to us it's not the same, because we don't think as you do. Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
Going beyond that and saying, "There are mysteries that far exceed human knowledge, but I actually have special, unsharable knowledge that allows me to understand those mysteries" is making an unwarranted leap. It's just making stuff up. What else could it be, since we have no way of knowing if you are correct? So if force X divulges information to source C but source D doesn't know it, or can't know it, then it's made up?
How is it not a superstition? All belief in the supernatural is superstition Define superstition. I usually think of superstition as in the following; If I step on cracks in the pavement, I'll die in two days Or; If the wind turns the tide the Oden wants me to live Belief in God of itself, is not a superstition. I agree that he is unknowable in a sense, but only because of a technicality which is irrelevant. If force X and source C have a correspondence, it's irrelevant as to what other sources conclude. it becomes a reality which is merely unknowable to other sources. Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
So, how can one tell the difference between reality and self-delusion in this case? I've no genuine reason to believe it is self-delusion, from my experience. It's a process that is interior and exterior, and my inferences are reasonable. I don't need a science experiment to know that chocolate is tastey to me. It's only your assumption that it is self-delusion which would make me start to consider whether that experience was delusion.Just because you assign self-delusion to the equation doesn't mean it is that. Like I said already, there's no way to tell if you are correct. That doesn't mean I'm incorrect. You favour that it IS superstition, and that it is incorrect, which isn't impartial Shraff - it comes from your own beliefs. If you and I started typing in Japanese, and only you and I could understand it - then objectively, people could conclude that we're speaking nonsense, if they never come to understand Japanese. Now dost thou ponder the unlimitles irrefutability of my tongue?
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
But everybody who holds to superstitious beliefs says that. The Jim Jones cult people didn't think they were deluded, either, nor the Cargo cults, nor the Heaven's Gate cults, nor the guy at the local insane asylum who thinks he is Jesus. Nor did Einstein. Ahah! See what I done there? I reversed it on you/(and your objection would rightly be that he wasn't superstitious - thereby proving your reasoning is iffy.) You're naming group x whom are clearly B (deluded). That doesn't make mike B, Shraff. it just means that group x are clearly B. You COULD argue that SOME believers were clearly nuts - but that doesn't tell us much about ALL or FEW, of others of the set "believers".
Anything we dream up could be "correct", Mike. But there's no way to test any of those dreams to learn which one, some, all, or none of them are correct, because the basis for each of those beliefs is exactly the same. Ahh...but they're not the same. That's the thing - life is complex, and even more complicate than can be imagined. So that even one life is a unique trajectory, un-repeatable. Because you you cannot establish the truth-value of many claims, doesn't mean their truth value is the same. This is where you go wrong - you assign anything unknown as the "same". But they're only the same in REGARDS to confirmation/falsification. You're narrow thinking is that you must establish a conclusion or any proposal is false. This is the atheist-subjective side of you Shraff. You still haven't proved belief in God is superstition. Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given. Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
You're very far from logical proof. You've got some learning to do yet.
1. a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge, in or of the ominous significance of a particular thing, circumstance, occurrence, proceeding, or the like. If anything, this proves my point. Superstition is based on events that coincide, correlate, or have no genuine causal link, such as a circumstance. my prayers could be considered superstitious, but only in a very cordial way - because I don't claim anything conclusive. Example; "I step on a crack in the pavement and it rained". Belief in God, of itself, is just a conviction. It is not strictly irrational necessarily, depending on your belief in God. Thus you provide a great example of equivocation when you mention eternity in damnation - for what has that got to do with belief in God. I am not talking about Christianity, or Judaism, but the conviction itself.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
Finish reading my entire post. Refuting the 1 point that I predict you refuting, doesn't exactly work in your favor I don't do colloquial terminology. You've got to realise that I seek something more than informal responses, in order to suffice. But you've misunderstood the quote you provided. Number 3, for example requires that you act on the belief. For example, you BELIEVE that walking under ladders brings bad luck so you don't walk under ladders. You obey the faulty reasoning. Defining what superstition is, doesn't prove belief in God is superstition of itself. Exacting deduction will, which is what I require. That's not to say that religion cannot take part in superstition. I'm sure many Christians, including myself, act superstitiously according to their own beliefs, at times. And some religions might be based on pure superstition. Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
If the belief that God's image on Earth died for one's sins and that one must embrace him lest face eternal damnation isn't a superstition then I don't know what is. 1. It has nothing to do with belief in God, solely.(My claim)2. I'm not talking about one interpretation of a Christian, or religions. I'm talking about belief in God - so it's utterly moot. Belief in God itself has nothing whatsoever to do with burning in hell. That's a non-sequitur. Belief in God and religions aren't the same thing. I am referring to the former. Why would I be arrogantly referring to Christians only? What about Pantheists or Deists. I refer to anyone with a beleif in god, not faulty religious interpretations of scripture. Belief in God, of itself, doesn't qualify as a superstition under the common definition, as of itself, it requires nor claims to cause anything..it is merely a conviction. There are two things you and Nuggin can't seperate. Belief and superstitious belief. If any belief was a superstition, then logically, superstition would have no definition, as we would have one term, which would be belief. Think long and hard about that sentence. Because consequentially, superstitious belief, would then be nothing more than a grammatical tautology. Google it. Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given. Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
So, you want someone to prove to you that their usage of a word corresponds to your own personal definitions. Give me a break. - So you want ducks to bite their wings off and fly to the moon? - Now surely that's an accurate assesment of your posts! Let's test your reasoning then;
I gave you 5 definitions of superstition Yes. That's fine so far.
3 of which, by your own lack of response, are unchallengable Ahh...the ship sinks. What exactly does that mean? Is it consequential - am I supposed to treat your claims as true because you provided definitions? How odd.
But since I only need to be correct with 1 of the 5, I'm gonna consider this debate over That's fine........a bit like believing that the fight ends when the first boxer puts his boxing gloves on.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
Maybe you should google "strawman" instead? Now hang on a minute, did you or did you not mention damnation? So is it belief in God that's superstitious, or belief in common Christian interpretations?
To believe in God is to believe in the existence (and influence) of something for which we have no empirical evidence. There is no empirical evidence he does not exist, so to believe he doesn't, would be superstitious, according to that illogic.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
Hi Ana
Many times the etymology of a word is more useful than the common definitions, which are attached more to the practical applications of the word. Using the common definition stops people from puling their own definition out of their butts, like we see Nuggin and co doing right now. They try and force something to work - like trying to fit a brick through a straw.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
It's called reductio ad absurdum.
Example; Guy says X is true. Mike says that if X is true then F - which is clearly false therefore X is false. Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
It's this kind of crazy ass bullcrap coming from you gdamn fundies that results in every single one of these thread crashing and burning into these typical garbage arguements......I'm amazed you learned to use a keyboard at all Nug, calm down, it's only a discussion. As Ringo said, there aren't any fundies taking part in the thread. That means I am not one.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
I think you're saying that I have said that because people haven't proved belief in God is superstitious, then it isn't.
That would be argumentum ad ignorantium. Infact, I have reasoned that one can infer that it is not a superstition according to the common definition (evidence contrary to the positive claim). Your ad nauseum of the ad hominem is becoming a tad tiresome. At this stage I think it would be futile to continue with this debate.
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