Intelligent Design (ID) Creationist(s) - (Michael Behe, the prime example)

Buzz:Reminds me of the story I heard yesturday about Alexander Solzhenitsyn.He was forced into a concentration camp by Stalin for daring to question and critique the system.While digging ditches he lost all hope in justice. He decided to throw down his shovel even though he knew the gaurds would beat him to death. Why live through this cruel reality?A man on one side or the other used his shovel to draw a cross in the dirt. Solzhenitsyn realized for the first time that his troubles were temporary. He saw 'inhuman faith' in justice's ultimate triumph.17 "Be on your guard against men; they will hand you over to the local councils and flog you in their synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. 21 "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said Archer. Even the part about me being spoiled; there's no doubt about that.the fact is that there is a connection between physical persecution and cover up, and intellectual persecution and cover up.Ok...so you don't want to hear it from me... I can understand that!But why did the Harvard audience 'boo' Alexander Solzhenitsyn?He told Malcomb Muggeridge that what happened at Harvard, hurt him more than all his years in the Gulag.The diminished capacity and cynical snobbery of a spoiled and opulent culture, is a more dastardly enemy of truth than shear physical brutality ever could be. So don't underestimate the sin of the common intellectual elitism that is so widespread here in the West.It's insidious allurement that tempts us to think we are hurting no-one is devlishly false. IMHO...And for the record, I am not attempting to drag this topic away. I was only throwing some encouragement Buzz's way. Carry on...Edited by Rob, : No reason given.Edited by Rob, : No reason given.Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

Arccher:You are partially correct Archer. Allow me to explain myself in this open debate on the floor of the senate here. My dear countryman, lend me your ears!Open debate can become... the biggest coverup of all time!That is why Churchill said something to the effect of, 'Democracy is the worst form of government; except for all the others'. So let's bear that in mind please...Mob rule is the worst kind of coverup for the most duplicitous motives. And it is done in the name of truth by those who deny that truth exists.That's using the Lord's name in vain for those of you who have never seen the connection before. It is plain blasphemy. And if not in the Divine sense, then that of the intellectual. but the reality is the same. Intellect is a sacred honor bestowed to all men.And so we find ourselves in this free nation; theists and nontheists alike, struggling to maintain the respect that each of us deserves, but more importantly, the respect that the subject and object of our discussion deserves.You speak of me being spoiled. I lay down my pride at such a proclamation of truth. Will you honor the same?I am not the only one here at EVC who is guilty of playing with words for the shear game that it can become. I despise myself for it, since it is I who endeavor to carry a name that I am not worthy of.Archer:I don't think you understand Archer...The pain I am suffering is in admitting to myself and to you, that in this 'free' society where virtually anything goes now, the pain is in knowing how easily tempted we are to opt for the easy way out!With freedom comes responsibility. And responsibility requires moral fortitude. I nee only point to thr fall of Rome.Archer:Is it that obvious?It has been the hardest thing I have ever gone through. but I didn't want to do it. I wanted to cut the intellectual legs off of my oponents. It is Christ who reminds me that it is not about that. It is about loving people so that they know what you say is real.And since that is one of the last things that has motivated me for the last two years, I have suffered like you cannot know (even suicidal) because I saw my true self... and it isn't pretty.So do not proceed to honor me Archer. It is almost a temptation in itself. It was God who made these changes. Pushing me here to EVC so that I could be tried in the fire and found wanting. And when He is through, perhpas I will be able to represent Him with more effectiveness. But in the words of Jesus, 'I have this baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is complete.'Dying to self is the biggest journey, and the hardest road. And it is the only way back to the paradise mankind disowned.Archer:So goes history and the fall of man. He trues to escape the perceived oppression of God, only to find himself in the even more unbearable confines of his own prideful prison. Or worse yet, that of his neighbors design (of which Naturalism says, 'Too bad'. survival of the fittest).Got to go to work. It's just my opinion. You must think for yourself, and I actually respect that now.Edited by Rob, : No reason given.