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Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Perceptions of Reality | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Rob writes: Two wrongs don't make a right. We're not talking about "right" and "wrong" here.We're talking about reality (and perceptions thereof). But if what you say is true, then abortion is wrong and same sex marriage is an atrocity! Two non sequiturs don't make a sequitur.
Consensus has nothing to do with reality. But agreement with the consensus means that one's perception of reality is safer from delusion. You seem to continuously forget that we are talking about perceptions of reality, not some imagined "real" reality. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What does that have to do with Absolute Morality or Absolute Morals?
Was Cho in his right mind? Unknown.
Did he do anything wrong when he killed those people? Under our current legal code, yes he did.
Or was he just dancing to his perception of reality and otherwise faultless? Yes he was dancing to HIS perception of reality. Under our current legal codes we do not have an answer. If he was insane, then he is not legally responsible for his actions. If he was insane, then he is not morally responsible for his actions. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5874 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Ringo:
You seem to continuously forget that we are talking about perceptions of reality, not some imagined "real" reality. And yet you posit that contradiction as a 'real' reality. Sounds like Sarte's 'No Exit' to me... Do you realize he undertood in the end? He realized the contradiction on his deathbed. I think you'll see it before then, but I can't force it upon you.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5874 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
jar:
...our current legal code... An irrelevant manmade imposition?
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Of course. All legality and morality we can know seems to be man made. So far no one has been able to show any other kind.
Instead of your irrelevant one liners do you ever intend to post anything that is on topic and relevant? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Rob writes: You seem to continuously forget that we are talking about perceptions of reality, not some imagined "real" reality. And yet you posit that contradiction as a 'real' reality. I posit nothing.I simply point out that you continue to confuse your perception of reality with reality. Sounds like Sarte's 'No Exit' to me... Do you realize he undertood in the end? He realized the contradiction on his deathbed. Do you realize that deathbed realizations are meaningless? If Sartre decided on his deathbed that he liked vanilla ice cream instead of chocolate, would that support your point? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5874 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Ringo:
I posit nothing. That's a fact... I don't believe you have said anything either.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5874 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
jar:
Of course. All legality and morality we can know seems to be man made. So far no one has been able to show any other kind. Instead of your irrelevant one liners do you ever intend to post anything that is on topic and relevant? Would I be doing anything that is 'actually' wrong if I didn't?
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Do you ever plan on posting something on topic?
Would I be doing anything that is 'actually' wrong if I didn't? Yes, you will be continuing to not follow the rules and guidelines of this forum. You will be continuing the same behavior that has gotten you sanctioned in the past. You will be exhibiting the classic symptom of "Insanity" by repeating the same actions while expecting different results. You, as usual, will be avoiding responding honestly or supporting your assertions. You will be continuing to show that your perceptions of reality are based not on reality but on some imaginary fancy that you are actually discussing things. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Rob writes: I don't believe you have said anything either. It doesn't matter what you believe. That's only your perception of reality. One belief can easily be delusion, so it holds no importance for me. I'll let the consensus decide who's "really" saying anything. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Seriously, thanks for providing your viewpoint here.
It's like this; you spoke of reality and truth in your last post as though it is inarguable and absolute. Where do you see it? Every example you can give is relative. The only place we can find an absolute is in the moral law. But when I speak of morality as absolute, you'd think I uttered the most sinful and insulting words imaginable judging by the way you guys tend to recoil. The Bible discusses this plainly. By worshipping the creation and looking to it for truth, you have lost sight of what is ultimately real. Jesus said it more clearly (and offensively to you) than I ever did, 'Heaven and earth will pass away, but my Word will never pass away.' Seriously... what you just described sounds like 'the cross' to me. Mankind sacrificing absolute morality and truth at the alter of relativity. So it's good versus evil, and those who accept the bible have an inside track to good. Reality doesn't matter. Evidence doesn't matter. Science is based on illusion, the illusion of reality, the illusion that we can know anything of reality by testing and evaluation of the evidence.
You've glorified and exalted the emperical (physical) world so high, that you have completely missed the fact that all things physical are relative. So what can we believe? And how can morality take an inferior position? The question is still how do you validate your perceptions of reality. I started this thread to pursue this question, and see how some people can accept a myth of a young earth in spite of evidence to the contrary.
No modern sci-fi can compete. Their all artificial copies of the reality. The reality includes an old earth in an old universe. Any belief that denies such reality is no different that flat earth or geocentrism: based on a falsehood. That is artificial by definition. Enjoy. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3623 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
Rob: It's like this; you spoke of reality and truth in your last post as though it is inarguable and absolute. It is absolute. People do argue about reality, though. Some people even argue with it. (This course of action is not recommended.)
Where do you see it? Reality does not depend on anyone seeing it in order to be real.
Every example you can give is relative. What we as individuals see of reality is limited, and thus relative. A picture of reality you can carry around in your head is not the ultimate reality.
The only place we can find an absolute is in the moral law. That's where you see it. But what you see of reality is limited, and thus relative, as with anyone else. That's why a bare assertion proves nothing. One could as easily say 'The only place we can find an absolute is in stinky tofu.' The idea has as much support. To establish morality or stinky tofu as an absolute, you have to show how all other phenomena depend on morality or stinky tofu. Once you establish morality or stink tofu as an absolute, you are still faced with the problem that ideas about morals or stinky tofu differ. You then either have to allow for this, or demonstrate why your idea of morality or stinky tofu is absolute. To accomplish the latter, you need to show why your idea is not just another idea but... reality. Oops. Little problem there. To establish the universal validity of your own beliefs you need to ground those ideas in reality. How are you going to do that while denying the absolute nature of reality itself? Interesting problem. Glad it's not mine. Good luck solving it.
You've glorified and exalted the emperical (physical) world so high, that you have completely missed the fact that all things physical are relative. Sorry, wrong number. Show me where I ever said the physical world is absolute, must less 'glorified' it. Neither have I 'completely missed' its relativity. I have heard of Einstein. I never said the physical world is absolute. I said reality is absolute. Reality is the ultimate reality. Reality is the only thing that is real. This is true by definition. You may as well acquire a taste for it. Archer All species are transitional.
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3623 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
Rob: Problem: The fact is... everyone dies. That is reality and that is life! What again is reality and life? It is death! I understand why you dramatize the idea of death. To sell band uniforms it helps to find trouble in River City first. But the math is incorrect. Here is your equation: reality and life = death In effect, you've said: 4 + 2 = 2 This equation, though, is more sound: 2 + 2 = 4 Life and death are two sides of one reality. Living things die. Dying things live. Test the math against reality. I think you'll find it holds up. Reality. It's what's for dinner. ______ Edited by Archer Opterix, : html. Archer All species are transitional.
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3623 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
Rob: you spoke of reality and truth in your last post as though it is inarguable and absolute. Where do you see it? Every example you can give is relative. The only place we can find an absolute is in the moral law. On the contrary: to establish 'the moral law'--or stinky tofu or anything else--as an absolute you must first establish it as a reality. The supremacy of reality is a given.
And how can morality take an inferior position [to reality]? Because if it isn't real it's unreal. Unreal things are notoriously bad at being absolute.
No modern sci-fi can compete. Their all artificial copies of the reality. Oh. So you DO think reality is absolute. Well, well. Archer All species are transitional.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5874 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Archer:
How are you going to do that while denying the absolute nature of reality itself? I know I have not listened enough. But you have not either... I agree that reality is absolute.
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