EvC Forum: Perceptions of Reality

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Topic: Perceptions of Reality

ringo

Member (Idle past 433 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 217 of 305 (395145)
04-15-2007 11:22 AM

Reply to: Message 216 by Rob
04-15-2007 11:03 AM

Re: It seems to me to be the proper thread.

Rob writes:

Because like you... I demand justice. I expect an account for your actions. I expect an explanation in truth for why you say what you say.

Your demands and expectations do not, in any way, make anything an absolute.

I assume such justice to be an actual reflection of the nature of reality (God).

Once again, you admit it is only an assumption.

What could be less "absolute" than one person's assumption?

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	Message 216 by Rob, posted 04-15-2007 11:03 AM		Rob has replied

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	Message 218 by Rob, posted 04-15-2007 11:48 AM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 433 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 219 of 305 (395155)
04-15-2007 12:15 PM

Reply to: Message 218 by Rob
04-15-2007 11:48 AM

Re: It seems to me to be the proper thread.

Rob writes:

Your demands and expectations do not, in any way, make anything an absolute.

I didn't say they did.

On the contrary, that's exactly what you said:

quote:
Because like you... I demand justice. I expect an account for your actions. I expect an explanation in truth for why you say what you say. Message 216

You said that justice is an absolute "because" you demand it - i.e. it is "caused" by your demand.

Another persons assumption that assumptions themselves are invalid.

I never said that assumptions are invalid. I said that you admitted that "justice is absolute" is only your assumption:

quote:
I assume such justice to be an actual reflection of the nature of reality (God). Message 216

Please be more careful with your words and try no to contradict yourself in consecutive posts.

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	Message 218 by Rob, posted 04-15-2007 11:48 AM		Rob has replied

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	Message 220 by Rob, posted 04-15-2007 12:47 PM		ringo has not replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 433 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 235 of 305 (396633)
04-21-2007 12:32 PM

Reply to: Message 233 by Rob
04-21-2007 12:08 PM

Re: Reality

Rob writes:

... all things physical are relative.

I'd say that physical things come close to being "absolute" in the sense that they can be observed objectively. Morality, on the other hand, is relative because it is based on subjective perceptions of reality.

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ringo

Member (Idle past 433 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 238 of 305 (396636)
04-21-2007 1:09 PM

Reply to: Message 237 by Rob
04-21-2007 12:53 PM

Re: Reality

Rob writes:

One's perception of reality is not equal to reality.

But "two's" perception is more likely to be real than "one's". And thousands' perception is more likely to be real than two's.

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	Message 237 by Rob, posted 04-21-2007 12:53 PM		Rob has replied

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	Message 239 by Rob, posted 04-21-2007 1:16 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 433 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 241 of 305 (396639)
04-21-2007 1:29 PM

Reply to: Message 239 by Rob
04-21-2007 1:16 PM

Re: Reality

Rob writes:

Two wrongs don't make a right.

We're not talking about "right" and "wrong" here.
We're talking about reality (and perceptions thereof).

But if what you say is true, then abortion is wrong and same sex marriage is an atrocity!

Two non sequiturs don't make a sequitur.

Consensus has nothing to do with reality.

But agreement with the consensus means that one's perception of reality is safer from delusion. You seem to continuously forget that we are talking about perceptions of reality, not some imagined "real" reality.

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This message is a reply to:
	Message 239 by Rob, posted 04-21-2007 1:16 PM		Rob has replied

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	Message 243 by Rob, posted 04-21-2007 3:04 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 433 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 246 of 305 (396656)
04-21-2007 3:46 PM

Reply to: Message 243 by Rob
04-21-2007 3:04 PM

Rob writes:

You seem to continuously forget that we are talking about perceptions of reality, not some imagined "real" reality.

And yet you posit that contradiction as a 'real' reality.

I posit nothing.
I simply point out that you continue to confuse your perception of reality with reality.

Sounds like Sarte's 'No Exit' to me...

Do you realize he undertood in the end? He realized the contradiction on his deathbed.

Do you realize that deathbed realizations are meaningless?

If Sartre decided on his deathbed that he liked vanilla ice cream instead of chocolate, would that support your point?

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This message is a reply to:
	Message 243 by Rob, posted 04-21-2007 3:04 PM		Rob has replied

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	Message 247 by Rob, posted 04-21-2007 3:50 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 433 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 250 of 305 (396663)
04-21-2007 4:04 PM

Reply to: Message 247 by Rob
04-21-2007 3:50 PM

Rob writes:

I don't believe you have said anything either.

It doesn't matter what you believe. That's only your perception of reality.

One belief can easily be delusion, so it holds no importance for me. I'll let the consensus decide who's "really" saying anything.

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ringo

Member (Idle past 433 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 260 of 305 (396793)
04-22-2007 3:14 AM

Reply to: Message 259 by Rob
04-22-2007 1:56 AM

Realivity

Rob writes:

And telling the truth, even at the expense of our own political expediency is absolutely good.

That only works if "The Truth" is absolute - and you're still unable to demonstrate that it is.

Since your perception (remember that?) of the truth is relative, telling your version of the truth can only be relatively good or bad.

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	Message 259 by Rob, posted 04-22-2007 1:56 AM		Rob has not replied

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