Making Sense of Evil (Virginia Tech Massacre)

Maybe I jumped the gun when I gave the definitions. But here you say something that also takes a step too far too quickly. So being open to the concept that there is evil beyond our own in this world, and to address this possibility of evil is irresponsible? I don't really have an opinion on whether or not any problems can be solved with such an acknolwedgement; I do know that such a concept doesn't necessarily take responsibility away from us because 'the devil made us do it', either...is that what I read you saying? I don't want to misinterpret anything you said, but it sounds like you're lumping a belief in supernatural evil with alleviating one's own responsibility for secular evils in this world. You know that's not the case.

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I'm bent, bruised, broken, and a little lost. But you know what? I'm not so afraid as you are, who has never ventured away from the trail.

How about this as a suggestion?It is human nature to love. We cherish certain things.Evil is that which threatens what we love.When something is absolutely sacred to us, the thing that threatens to take it away appears absolutely evil.___

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ArcherAll species are transitional.

It's a waste of time to look for reason in the irrational.All the rants and videos and manifestos are very little help in understanding 'why' someone does something like this.The place to look is in the brain chemistry. There's the 'why.'_____LiveScience: 'Pundits Clueless'
404Edited by Archer Opterix, : html.

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ArcherAll species are transitional.

Sure it is, and you even explained why in the same paragraph: The problem is that so many Christians, and you can see it here often, do use SuperNatural Evil as a copout and excuse. The whole concept of Original Sin and Fallen Human and even the Fall itself is just such a copout.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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I'm sorry, but this is a rediculous statement. The nazis thought they were doing right in the great scheme of things by getting rid of all those they thought were inferior. I would argue that the nazis did evil things as well as being evil themselves.

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Well I think this is just too simplistic of an interpretation. People can only be expected to live their lives according to their own conscience and their own conceptions of right and wrong. A person is more than their actions. If one does something that is evil it doesn't make them so.Of course, I'm going to have some trouble with the Nazi's since they are often touted as the prime exemplar of evil. In my mind I believe most Nazi's had to know that mass exterminations, e.g., exterminating babies, is wrong and yet they did it anyway for selfish reasons. They would therefore be considered evil in my opinion. But if one is brought up in the fervor of that era then they don't know any better; they are doing evil deeds but don't know that they are. How can we honestly demonize them?

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According to the way you define evil people (people who sit around consciously making plans and doing things they know to be evil), it is impossible to pin down anyone who's actually evil.

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Which is why I think that it may not be a useful concept except in the context of Christian mythology. Evil is most often attributed to the Satan or the Devil. This character does things he knows are wrong just to wreak havoc with God's creation, or something to that effect. It's very hard to imagine this adjective (evil) to apply in mass to people who do things we deem wrong. It's not just hard for me; it's hard even for Christians. This is why Reverend Graham attributed this act to Satan, and not Cho. It just doesn't seem intuitively accurate to think there are "evil" people - their viewpoints are just wrong and need to be corrected if possible or they have lost touch with reality.Branding people as Good or Evil just seems to white and black. It leads inevitably to the isolation of certain groups outside of one's moral sphere. The concept is itself a problem since it leads to more us and them thinking, i.e., George Bush's good vs evil thinking.

Crazy people may not do terrible things. Most don't. The mentaly ill sure as shit refrain from evil, because they also know it's wrong. Which means that it's not neccessarily the cause of their terrible actions, if they do perpetrate a crime, because that knowledge doesn't disappear, because they're mentally ill. It's a pre-hoc mistake.Normal people can do evil, and mentally ill people.
Normal people can do right, and mentally ill people can.
Normal people can do evil, and not be responsible.
Mentally ill people can do evil and be responsible.Life sure as shit isn't as black and white as this thread makes it out to be through opinionated falsities - that much I do know. It's like asking what makes a 1000cc engine powerful, the pistons or the sprocket ratios. Horsecrap - it's far more than that, AND some.Ask Michael Stone, atleast he knows what he's talking about.I find it ironic that he's the expert but doesn't talk in a "I know it all" manner.You guys really piss me off sometimes. What are you doing? Have you the downpat on every issue, because you thought about it over a chip-balm once. Do me a favour. Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.

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You guys really piss me off sometimes. What are you doing? Have you the downpat on every issue, because you thought about it over a chip-balm once. Do me a favour.

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Take a deep breath. Relax.The reason people even bother to express their opinions to other people on a site like this is because they know they don't have the downpat and want their views validated or criticized. They can then gain better understanding of the issues and develop a more refined opinion.

I did, thanks. I don't usually get like that. I guess it's beause this general attitude comes across as prevailent when I lurk and read. I'm not singling out individuals here - but sometimes people sound so arrogant, like their views are the absolute truth or something.Sorry about my frustration-fit. I had to get it out. It's not personal.

Mike, I really don't know what you are talking about in this post.

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Normal people can do evil, and mentally ill people.
Normal people can do right, and mentally ill people can.
Normal people can do evil, and not be responsible.
Mentally ill people can do evil and be responsible.

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Maybe you'd better define "normal" and "mentally ill".

I was just trying to remind people that there is a whole host of variables to consider, before they pidgeon hole something.The quote I quoted you saying, I didn't get it. Was it supposed to relate to anything directly? You said; "Crazy people aren't evil, though they may do terrible things"No offense Shraff - but that's not one of your greatest insights to say the least. If you were just rolling out un-formed thoughts, fair enough.Do you mean that crazy = mentally ill, for starters?If we define evil as sadism, and egotism, and a high selfishness, such as Stone's "most evil" chart suggests, then the individual must show some signs of this in order to be high on his scale.Allow me to Sherlock;It struck me as most narcissistic of the Virginia -tech murderer, to send the photographs of himself, apparently "posing". This suggests to me that there is a high egotism in the individual. Self-importance has outweighed other considerations in his own mind. He has atleast, chosen to not take out his violence on himself alone.

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But that's nothing concrete, it's only a speculation based on observation. I'm sure Michael Stone would agree that it's good for us to not conclude anything, but instead, tentatively analyze all of those variables involved in the hope that we can get closer to solving the riddle.Throwing the ingredients into the oven willy nilly, and whacking the thing out after five minutes, sure doesn't bake mikey's cake.

Did you miss the keywords 'being open to'? So, anyone and everyone who is so much as open to the concept of supernatural evil is automatically irresponsible, without any question whatsoever? Come on, you know better than that. 'So many' does not equal all of them/us, which is what you asserted just above that. The next line I agree with, at least if we're talking the general intepretation. Me, I see gaining knowledge of good and evil from the apple as responisibility that comes with understanding the difference.Edited by One_Charred_Wing, : gotta stop leaving words out

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I'm bent, bruised, broken, and a little lost. But you know what? I'm not so afraid as you are, who has never ventured away from the trail.

Yes, for me crazy = mentally ill.

IMHO yes. Considering areas of Evil outside the Natural is irresponsible.Let me try to explain why.As I have gotten older I have been forced to realize two things, that there are some things that really are outside my control, and that I have limited energy to expend.By definition, anything SuperNatural is outside my control. I cannot do anything about it.Effort spent worrying about the SuperNatural is simply effort not used in areas where I actually can have some influence.The whole area of "...being open to the concept that there is evil beyond our own in this world, and to address this possibility of evil..." simply seems like a royal waste of time and effort.Yes, I do think that is irresponsible.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

It is possible that you can be mentally ill, or have some mild inherently "mental" problem, yet still be evil by will, and even use that illness as an excuse. This can be proved by people who have the same mental problem, who never do evil.So a mentally ill person can still be evil.

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This can be proved by people who have the same mental problem, who never do evil.

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Just because two people have been diagnosed under an umbrella term like "depression" or "paranoia" or "psychosis" does not mean they are suffering from the same abnormal neurochemistry or thought patterns. So in this respect, I don't think your argument is very effective. People have unique psyches that resist categorization.

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So a mentally ill person can still be evil.

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That said, I think you may have a good point here depending if we can get a grip on what evil means. For instance, I'm not too sure I like the idea of labeling everybody who commits a violent or sadistic act as mentally ill since it seems to shift the blame to an illness and not to their own free will.This is why I mentioned in the OP that the crux of the issue is free will, i.e., is the will free? Until we can answer questions such as that I don't think we are going to get a handle on the issue of evil.
Edited by JustinC, : Typos