YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, adonai, lord, elohim, god, allah, Allah thread.

The pronounciation of "W" in English has no "E" sound by itself. It does however have a subtile "O" sound by itself. The "E" sound in Yahweh comes from the combination of the "W" and the "H".

I guess then, if there are any other readers of this thread we shall leave it to each reader to decide as to who has refused to see what.

Yah, Ned.........clearly unfounded, unsubstantiated and soundly refuted statements.

Seeker, my suggestion to you if you're sincerely interested in the truth is to go back to my opening statement, read it and read carefully all 11 pages, taking notes on your notepad. Or if you simply want your question answered, search out the answer in the pages. The answer is there, but there's no reason to rehash it again. It's an interesting subject as you can see by this thread. May God, Jehovah, that is, bless and enlighten you via his Holy Spirit and Biblical truth.

Ned, the link in post 143 was cited to shed some light on how the name came to be pronounced Jehovah. I refuted afterwords the links insistence that it was misstranslated. Remember that? My clear position all along is that it is the proper modern rendering of Yahweh in English and we being English speaking people are not obligated to use the Hebrew pronunciation in reference to it no more than we are obligated to use the Hebrew in any of the Old Testament words or names. It's as silly to insist we are misspronouncing the name Jehovah as it would be to insist we are misspronouncing the name John, Judy, or words like javelin.

I appreciate your input here Seeker. I had your post all answered in detail but lost it accidently, so here goes again: I believe these texts were highly influenced by the mindset of the Messorites as well as other scribes all the way back to the latter centuries BC who had the phobia of speaking the name. Imo, they can't justify the usage of Adonai as Yehovah when the consonents aren't even close to the same sounds, so just as in the King James text which has a few "Jehovahs" in it, what renderings of Yehovah they did use had to propherly come from YHWH.2. Why is Yahweh the correct pronunciation of YHWH? As I understand, the phonic sound of the consents spoken together determines the vowels to be used and this fits the ticket just fine, as agreed by most scholars.3. Nobody has come up with a better modern English translation of YHWH than Jehovah, again as most translators and scholars who should know have attested since the Js and Vs came into usage.

Hi Rizal. Saalam and a hearty welcome to EvC. We hope you will hang out here and bless us with your input as we hope also to bless you with what we have to offer.1. Rizal, do you understand the difference between a proper name of a person or god and a descriptive adjective which describes a person or god?
If you do, you understand that the proper name of a person or god is the one name which specifically identifies the person or god. The proper name of President Bush is George W Bush. The words "man" and "president" are descriptive words. The name YHWH/YAWEH/JEHOVAH is the proper name of the god of the Bible. The meaning of this name is "the existing one," or "the I am," or as you say "the living one." This god is the god of both the Old Testament and the New Testament since Jesus identifies as the son of the OT god, YHWH/(Hebrew)/Yahweh (English pronunciation of the Hebrew/ Jehovah, (English translation of YHWH).2. The proper name of your Islamic Quranic god is Allah, which means god or the god. There is only one proper name of the gods of both the Bible and the Quran and they are not one and the same.3. I don't know where you're from, but I do know this. If you are from one of the fundamentalist totalitarian Islamic nations and you go on a preaching mission preaching Jehovah, the god of the Bible you will find yourself in serious legal trouble and likely in prison or dead. Or if you go on a preaching mission preaching the gospel of the Biblical god's son Jesus the same fate will befall you. All the alleged names cited in this link are not proper names but descriptive adjectives of the Quranic god Allah. The Bible is full of this sort of descriptive language regarding the Biblical god Jehovah also. The old saying goes, "iron sharpens iron." so we all acquire wisdom, knowledge and understanding as we dialog and debate on
the wonderful www.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

That says nothing in refutation of my statement. Elohim is not, I repeat, is not the Biblical god Jehovah's proper name. It is a descriptive word which says what Jehovah is. He is a god just as I am a man. Man and god are descriptive names of persons and deities. Zeus was the proper name of a pagan Greek god of the sky/weather et al. God is not the proper name of the pagan god Zeus any more than god is not Jehovah's proper name.The fact that Jehovah is not considered the proper name of the Muslim god nor is in the Quran stated as such and that the god Jehovah is unacceptable in fundamentalist nations proves that Jehovah is not the Muslim god Allah's proper name. His proper name is simply Allah. That's stated over and over by Mohammed and by Islam at large. To be a Muslim one must declare that Allah is god and Mohammed is his prophet. Did you note that double usage of the word/name Allah commonly used in Islam, Arach, i.e. Allah is God? How do you explain the double usage of the word? You can't other than to admit that Allah is the proper name of the Islamic god. No. What makes Allah a name is that it was a proper name of one of the chief gods among a host of pagan gods and was indeed at one time a moon god. Thus the crescent moon of Islam. Mohammed enforced by the sword that his god Allah be supreme and worship of all other pagan gods were forbidden by him. It was the main god of his family clan. Jehovah was never one of the hundreds of pagan gods worshipped in the region before Islam. 1. This was a superstition which later came after the fall of Jerusalem and exile when Israel and Judah were not in God's favor as at first. It was never intended by God to be thus or he wouldn't have had it in the original scriptures which were to be read and copied exactly as written under penalty of death curse.2. Jehovah was not replaced by elohim due to this superstition. The word "adonai" (lord/master) became the replacement as has been carried through (contrary to scripture, imo) by most modern translators. The ASV held on to the over 6000 references to the name Jehovah in the OT. That's why I prefer it over the rest.Exodus 20:3 clearly demonstrates what I've been trying to tell you people (ASV) where God says that he is Jehovah, their god using both the proper name of the god Jehovah and the descriptive word "elohim." to state that Jehovah is their god. This is in all the manuscripts which were used by all translators even though they chose not to translate it literally as written. 1. I never banned myself. I suspended myself indefinitely, my first ever suspension in four years.2. I made an announcemnt to that before I began posting. You must have missed it. Thanks for the welcome.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Modulous, it's obvious you either choose to ignore that facts or you just don't get it that a description of a god or person doesn't make that another proper name. We and the gods have only one proper name. We have many descriptions, all of us and the gods as well. The prophet/messiah Mohammed's god Allah inspired him to kill, kill, and kill until Islam becomes the world religion. The god of the prophet/messiah Jesus's god Jehovah inspired him to love, love, love, save, save, save and to kill nobody. Can't you see that something's wrong with that picture? How can the one and same god inspire the two prophet/messiahs to do the opposite? How also can the one and same god have two messiahs, both who claim to be the real messiah and the one's followers kill the followers of the other et al, et al?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Rizal, what say you to my last message? How can your god Allah be inspiring your prophet and his followers to kill and persecute the followers of Jehovah's messiah when Jehovah does the opposite, ispiring Jesus and his desciples to kill nobody, no not even those who persecute them?Why, Rizal, is preaching of Jehovah and Jesus in most fundy Muslim nations forbidden openly? How can one and the same god be against it/himself? You people are just not making a lot of sense.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Banning is not suspension. To ban is intended to forbid return. To suspend is just that, to suspend for a period of time, in my case indefinitely. Look the words up.LOL. You no way have made sense of your argument about Jehovah and the mainline translator/scholars agree. They have enough sense to understand that the English language added the Js and the Vs et al. You're the odd one out on that count.To keep repeating your falacies does not make them any more true and that's all you ever do on these counts. Believe what you want. I can't help you if you choose to believe falsehoods.LOL also on the moon god thing. Nobody has ever empirically refuted that Allah was once a pagan moon god in the region. Certainly he wasn't the only god to these people for eons. They worshipped over two hundred including him. Not so in the Bible with the Jews so far as ligitimate. Jehovah was to be their one and only god ever.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Jar, we've been over this adnausium and you know the facts. Nowhere in the New Testament has Jesus or his apostles killed or persecuted anyone including their enemies. The popes and bishops of Vatican City were not santioned by God, Jesus or the apostles to do the killing they did. That is not NT Christianity whether they claimed to be Christian or not. Claiming does not make them Christian when they do the opposite of what Christianity stands for.As I've documented over and over, the only one's God ever allowed to kill was over the land of Israel which God chose to be his land for his people. Only the Jews were instructed to kill and possess the land. The only other people God motivated to kill were nations who were to punish his people Israel when they disobeyed him and worshipped other gods et al. That was exclusively the only killing God sanctioned. God did not sanction anyone in the New Testament age to kill. Jesus advised his followers that they would be the ones persecuted and that it was given to them to suffer for his sake. Are you going to show your ignorance by telling the www that the prophet Mohammed and his close desciples killed nobody and advocated no killing? And you chide me for falsehoods? You have no shame, as usual, Jar. Islam teaches that when Jesus returns to earth he will become a follower of Mohammed and of Islam. This allegedly makes Mohammed greater than Jesus. Islam denies Jesus is the son of God. The fact that the preaching of Jesus and his gospel is forbidden in Islamic fundy nations proves that Mohammed is greater than he to them. You don't become a Muslim by believing or saying Jesus is Allah's prophet. To do so would likely get you in deep dodo. Only Mohammed is to be declared his prophet. That is required of all Muslims.

Rizal, are you saying that Mohammed's humanity and inspiration of Satan are what inspired him (abe: to order) his men to behead around 600 Jewish men in one day in a small village and take the women and children into slavery after the town surrendered, Mohammed keeping one of the hapless women to add to his harem of wifes? Or was it Allah, Mohammed's god who inspired him to do this bloody massacre on these who had surrendered? Certainly it could not have been the father god of Jesus, i.e. Jehovah who inspired Jesus and his desciples to suffer themselves and do violence to nobody, no not even their enemies who eventually killed them all.(note)I'm not intending to draw this topic off but it is necessary to show the difference in the gods of the New Testament and the Koran and their prophets, it is necessary to document that Mohammed was a violent killer while Jesus was the opposite, totally non-violent. http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/mhmd.htmEdited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

As I understand the Koran, Mohammed recognizes both the OT and the NT as holy books and regards both Jesus and Mohammed as prophets of Allah. According to the Biblical NT, no scripture in it advocates or sanctions violence. Neither of the alleged prophets of Allah are of the Old Testament era/dispensation.Problem. Mohammed advocates violent expansion of Islam whereas Jesus advocates nonviolent expansion of Christianity. How does this square with Allah who inspires Mohammed and the Biblical god Jehovah inspiring Jesus to advocate total nonviolence?I rest my case here. We could argue this till the cows come home and I've put all the time into this futile debate that I can afford. To go into it further would lead too far off topic. I've shown the problems with the notion that the gods of the Koran and of the New Testament are one and the same. The preaching and even the possession of the New Testament, Jesus and the gospels is strictly forbidden in most totalitarian Muslam fundamentalist nations. This supports my position that these religions, their prophets and their gods are diametrically opposed and not one and the same.Each will have to make up their own minds considering the evidence.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Obviously you don't understand the difference between the dispensational NT and the OT. Until you get a handle on that, you'll never understand why no violence is advocated as per the NT.You're like Mohammed. He did'nt understand that either. He applied what Jehovah assigned specifically to the Jews for a certain promised land and time frame to his NT Allah/Islam era religion. Not only that but he applied it to to the entire planet until the planet is conquered for his god Allah whereas the OT was restrictive to one nation and one small area, i.e. Israel. .

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW