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Author Topic:   Where Science And The Bible Meet
ArchArchitect
Member (Idle past 6180 days)
Posts: 58
From: Pasadena, CA
Joined: 04-16-2007


Message 31 of 208 (397043)
04-24-2007 3:03 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Dr Adequate
04-23-2007 6:58 AM


Do your homework Adequate. A philosospher estimated that the Sun was 1 meter in diameter. I can't think of his name right now - I think it might have been Galileo or something but I am really not sure at this point. Since I'm in a rush, I'll get your answer later.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-23-2007 6:58 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by AdminPD, posted 04-24-2007 6:13 AM ArchArchitect has not replied
 Message 37 by Nuggin, posted 04-24-2007 11:20 AM ArchArchitect has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 32 of 208 (397048)
04-24-2007 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by ArchArchitect
04-24-2007 2:59 AM


Re: Pick and choose
AA I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding here (haha great pun!).
We are not trying to prove that God doesn't exist. Proving God's existance / non-existance is outside of the scope of science. It's simply not something that science has anything to say about.
The problem is that there are a lot of things that science does have stuff to say about. Those things are often at odds with parts of the Bible. There are things in the Bible with are just false.
But here's the thing, those parts are NOT the important parts of the Bible.
No scientist is going to try to use science to discredit the teachings of Jesus. No scientist is going to try to use science to argue against the 10 commandments. Etc, etc.
The _only_ problem that arrises is when people follow this logic:
I believe in God, I believe that the Bible was written by God, God can not be wrong therefore the Bible can not be wrong, therefore my interuptation (or my pastors interuptation) can not be wrong.
Even if you want to believe the first 4 pieces of that, you can't say that you are infalliable.
Assuming God wrote the Bible and the Bible says "the stars fell from the heavens". This does not necessarily mean "the stars actually literally physically fell from the heavens."
This could be poetry, this could be metaphor, this could be a lot of things. The stars could represent something. The heavens could be symbolic of something.
The same holds true for Genesis and the Creationism stuff. A "day" doesn't have to "24 hours". God created all the animals doesn't have to mean ALL of them appeared at the same time.
Look for a deeper interuptation of the Bible and I think you will progress much further spiritually.
Side note: The idea that the Bible contains things which are scientifically correct is not really much of a justification. The Bible contains A LOT of information. Surely some of it has to be scientifically accurate, just like parts of Greek Mythology are scientifically accurate.
If I write "Rain falls down and spiders shoot laser guns", part of that is scientifically correct. Doesn't mean all of it is.

This message is a reply to:
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AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 33 of 208 (397058)
04-24-2007 6:13 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by ArchArchitect
04-24-2007 3:03 AM


Evidence
ArchArchitect,
You started this thread and stated: There are many places in the Bible which have been scientifically been proven to be accurate.
It is your job to provide the evidence that supports your statements, not send participants "to do their homework".
This thread is also not about whether God exists, but about how science has proven portions of the Bible to be accurate. Please keep to the topic.
Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.
Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout.
Thank you Purple

This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 34 of 208 (397060)
04-24-2007 7:05 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by ArchArchitect
04-24-2007 2:59 AM


Re: Pick and choose
quote:
I am showing that the Bible does have some points that can be scientifically backed up.
Even if this were true - and you really haven't picked a very good example - it wouldn't even be good evidence that there is no conflcit between science and religion. And that was the point you claimed to be addressing.
quote:
For people like you, that is very bad news because you wont accept that He does exist without proof.
So your God doesn't like people who care about truth. It's certainly apparent that this is not a problem for you.
quote:
So I have done my job and told you that He does exist. You are not my responsibility. Your blood is on your own hands now. I have done what I needed to do - that is it.
So if we won't unquestionally beleive everything you say it's our fault. Your God's got a pretty twisted morality. You'd better hope that there isn't a just and good God up there - because if there is you'll be in bigger trouble than the people you drive away from Christianity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by ArchArchitect, posted 04-24-2007 2:59 AM ArchArchitect has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by ArchArchitect, posted 04-24-2007 11:58 AM PaulK has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 35 of 208 (397064)
04-24-2007 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by ArchArchitect
04-24-2007 2:59 AM


Re: Pick and choose
I have done what I needed to do - that is it.
What? No "I'll pray for you?" You aren't following the Fundy Playbook very well, Arch.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 36 of 208 (397080)
04-24-2007 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by ArchArchitect
04-24-2007 2:59 AM


your job?
So I have done my job and told you that He does exist. You are not my responsibility. Your blood is on your own hands now. I have done what I needed to do - that is it.
You think that is your job? Sheesh. Your Christian Education has been more neglected than I thought.
Whether or not GOD exists is also irrelevant to this topic. Here we are talking about whether or not there is science in the Bible.
I am showing that the Bible does have some points that can be scientifically backed up.
Well, so far you have failed miserably, and if that was actually the subject you wanted to discuss, the OP is way off course.
There is a big difference between "points that can be backed up scientifically" and Science. The parts you mentioned are not science.
The sun darkens. Observation not science. Why the sun darkened would be a science question.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by ArchArchitect, posted 04-24-2007 2:59 AM ArchArchitect has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 37 of 208 (397095)
04-24-2007 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by ArchArchitect
04-24-2007 3:03 AM


Critical thought
A philosospher estimated that the Sun was 1 meter in diameter. I can't think of his name right now - I think it might have been Galileo or something but I am really not sure at this point.
AA, let's think this through. In order for a philosopher to have come to this conclusion, they would have needed to know what "a meter" was. The meteric system was developed in 18th century France.
Are you suggesting that a mere 200 years ago, people thought that the sun was a tiny little ball floating out there? I don't think you are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by ArchArchitect, posted 04-24-2007 3:03 AM ArchArchitect has not replied

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 38 of 208 (397099)
04-24-2007 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Nuggin
04-24-2007 11:20 AM


Re: Critical thought
Nuggin writes:
In order for a philosopher to have come to this conclusion, they would have needed to know what "a meter" was.
Don't get hung up on units - or terminology in general. Chances are that philosopher (if he existed) didn't speak English either, so he didn't call it the "sun".
The point of the claim is that the sun was about 1 meter or 1 yard or 2 cubits in diameter.
Edited by Ringo, : @#$% spelling.

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This message is a reply to:
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ArchArchitect
Member (Idle past 6180 days)
Posts: 58
From: Pasadena, CA
Joined: 04-16-2007


Message 39 of 208 (397104)
04-24-2007 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by PaulK
04-24-2007 7:05 AM


Re: Pick and choose
So if we won't unquestionally beleive everything you say it's our fault.
How can it be my fault if you choose not to believe what I say? I already told you. I went off topic on that so I'm going to veer back now. I suggest that you do the same.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by PaulK, posted 04-24-2007 7:05 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by PaulK, posted 04-24-2007 12:29 PM ArchArchitect has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 40 of 208 (397107)
04-24-2007 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by ArchArchitect
04-24-2007 11:58 AM


Re: Pick and choose
quote:
How can it be my fault if you choose not to believe what I say?
It's your fault for expecting that level of belief.
It's your fault for undermining your own credibility with your arrogant and ignorant approach.
Why would it be my fault ?
quote:
I already told you
Why don't you come out and say what you really mean ? What entitles you to be uncritically believed ? Tell me !
quote:
I went off topic on that so I'm going to veer back now. I suggest that you do the same.
I note that you ignored the on-topic part of my post.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by ArchArchitect, posted 04-24-2007 11:58 AM ArchArchitect has not replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5914 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 41 of 208 (397124)
04-24-2007 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by ArchArchitect
04-24-2007 2:59 AM


Re: Pick and choose
ArchArchitect writes:
I am showing that the Bible does have some points that can be scientifically backed up.
My point it that one can do the very same thing with the ancient scriptures of Islam, Hindu and Buddhism. It is not really that hard to squint as some scripture and imagine some deep meaning that is not there. There are many Islamic websites that lay it all out and even demonstrate that the Koran describes embryology, is checksummed with numerology, etc.
OFF TOPIC below this point!- Please Do Not Respond to this portion of the message or continue in this vein.
Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
ArchArchitect writes:
For people like you, that is very bad news because you wont accept that He does exist without proof. For me, I have 100% faith that God does exist.
That is, IMHO a very arrogant position that must be born out of ignorance. I have no such certainty and willing admit to it.
Arch writes:
I do not need proof of His existence. He has worked so many miracles in my life that to say that He does not exist, is idiocy. I can list some of them for you if you want, however it would be off topic. I'll go to the chat room or something, I don't care.
That last statement is contradiction. First you say you don't need proof and then you say the miracles you have witnessed are proof.
There is good thread on here that discusses miracles and the subjective fallacy of confirmation bias.
Arch writes:
So I have done my job and told you that He does exist. You are not my responsibility. Your blood is on your own hands now. I have done what I needed to do - that is it.
You character and attitude reminds more of the pharisees; than of Jesus or the apostles.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.
Edited by iceage, : Removed points that would led of topic
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by ArchArchitect, posted 04-24-2007 2:59 AM ArchArchitect has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by ArchArchitect, posted 04-24-2007 7:19 PM iceage has not replied

  
ArchArchitect
Member (Idle past 6180 days)
Posts: 58
From: Pasadena, CA
Joined: 04-16-2007


Message 42 of 208 (397160)
04-24-2007 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by iceage
04-24-2007 2:17 PM


Re: Pick and choose
First you say you don't need proof and then you say the miracles you have witnessed are proof.
I do not need proof but the proof is there. Any more stupid questions?
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by AdminPD, posted 04-24-2007 7:36 PM ArchArchitect has not replied

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 43 of 208 (397162)
04-24-2007 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by ArchArchitect
04-24-2007 7:19 PM


Heed Warnings
AA,
When you see an off topic tag on a post, it means do not continue the off topic discussion.
Note to all participants: Please get back to the topic and support your positions with evidence or reasoned argumentation.
Please do not drag this thread into personal bantering.
Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.
Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout.
Thank you Purple

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by ArchArchitect, posted 04-24-2007 7:19 PM ArchArchitect has not replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5914 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 44 of 208 (397181)
04-24-2007 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by ArchArchitect
04-24-2007 2:59 AM


How about stopping the Sun
Arch writes:
I am showing that the Bible does have some points that can be scientifically backed up. Of course there are things in there that are supernatural, like stars falling from the sky. So what? They are supernatural.
So the biblical quotes that are absurd are supernatural, but those fragments, that if given some liberal interpretation, demonstrate amazing rational scientific insights.
Other religious fundamentalists do the same thing with their "holy scripture". The Muslim's claim that the Koran describes embryology.
What about stopping the Sun or even moving the Sun's shadow backwards. Do these passage demonstrate insight or ignorance of cosmology.
Arch writes:
God is not bound by science, therefore, you cannot prove the existence of God through science - let alone anything.
Evidently not, since stopping the Sun would require the suspension of all the laws of conservation of momentum just so Joshua could take his revenge. Why not just stop the beating of the black evil hearts of these enemies of god.
It is odd that this being that could evoke such far reaching supernatural powers at will, found iron chariots formidable in Judges 1:19.
Judges 1:19 writes:
And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by ArchArchitect, posted 04-24-2007 2:59 AM ArchArchitect has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 45 of 208 (397234)
04-25-2007 4:05 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by ArchArchitect
04-24-2007 2:59 AM


Re: Pick and choose
Yeah, maybe because that's not what I am talking about. I am showing that the Bible does have some points that can be scientifically backed up. Of course there are things in there that are supernatural, like stars falling from the sky. So what? They are supernatural. God is not bound by science, therefore, you cannot prove the existence of God through science - let alone anything.
In the same way, the Qur'aan has some points that can be scientifically backed up. It says that the sun exists, and look, the sun does exist. Bully for Muhammad. And any point on which the Qur'aan disagrees with science? Well then, Allah performed a miracle. Bully for Allah.
OFF TOPIC below this point! - Please Do Not Respond to this portion of the message or continue in this vein.
Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
For people like you, that is very bad news because you wont accept that He does exist without proof. For me, I have 100% faith that God does exist. I do not need proof of His existence. He has worked so many miracles in my life that to say that He does not exist, is idiocy. I can list some of them for you if you want, however it would be off topic. I'll go to the chat room or something, I don't care.
You say your faith is "100%", but do you really have as much faith in your God as the 9/11 bombers had in theirs?
So I have done my job and told you that He does exist. You are not my responsibility. Your blood is on your own hands now. I have done what I needed to do - that is it.
Ah, Christian love.
Not even Pontius Pilate washed his hands so fast.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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