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Author Topic:   Abiogenesis
kuresu
Member (Idle past 679 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 301 of 305 (397544)
04-26-2007 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by Fosdick
04-26-2007 1:02 PM


Re: The chemical v. code test
Why don't rocks do that?

every wonder why geologists can tell so much information from a rock?

while the compositional elements of rock can be random, rocks are made up of minerals. and minerals have definite structures that form under definite conditions.

not only that, but the difference in organization of the composition of rock (sedimentary vs metamorphic) has information--such as how deep it was in the earth.

we can tell a lot about rocks and minerals just by their structure. They have a lot of information. But that information is useless except to us.

I honestly don't see why you're making such a big deal about this. It's pretty simple, really.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Fosdick, posted 04-26-2007 1:02 PM Fosdick has not yet responded

  
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3666 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 302 of 305 (397560)
04-26-2007 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by AZPaul3
04-26-2007 1:44 PM


Re: The chemical v. code test
AZPaul3 wrote:

Do you reject molecular combinations in random trial and error over a few hundred million years?

Pure chance doesn't do it for me. Have you any probability models to determine what those odds were? I believe its was Hoyle and Wickramasinghe who calculated the probability of the first protein molecule to be on the order 1 in 10^120.

—HM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by AZPaul3, posted 04-26-2007 1:44 PM AZPaul3 has responded

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 Message 304 by AZPaul3, posted 04-26-2007 3:33 PM Fosdick has not yet responded

  
Wounded King
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Edinburgh, Scotland
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 303 of 305 (397563)
04-26-2007 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by Fosdick
04-26-2007 3:01 PM


Re: The chemical v. code test
Is there any particular reason why we should credit Hoyle and Wickramsinghe's calculation?

TTFN,

WK


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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4117
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 304 of 305 (397564)
04-26-2007 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by Fosdick
04-26-2007 3:01 PM


Big Number Abiogenesis?
I believe its was Hoyle and Wickramasinghe who calculated the probability of the first protein molecule to be on the order 1 in 10^120.

I don’t know about those two and I’m being lazy in not looking them up, but, seems to me the first question is “What first protein?” Proteins are chains of amino acids. Reasonable speculations indicate a whole slog of aminos in a pre-biotic Earth environment. Doesn’t seem to me to be so far fetched that two such thingies glom on to each other and viola…first protein. Probably doesn’t do much except float around looking for more candidates to join with.

10 to some big number seems a bit linear in thinking, doesn’t it? If we’re talking some large mega-protein like hemoglobin then I can understand the incredulity of its spontaneous generation, but, I hope this is not what is being offered here.

Cannot a simple chain of, say 5 aminos, or maybe even 50 aminos, not be considered a protein? The incredulity certainly lessens at this level. And if we take the reasonable assumption of many millions of trials daily over many millions of years, does this not lessen it even more?


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 Message 302 by Fosdick, posted 04-26-2007 3:01 PM Fosdick has not yet responded

Admin
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Message 305 of 305 (397566)
04-26-2007 3:47 PM


This thread has reached the 300 post limit and so is being closed. Thanks, everyone, for your participation.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
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