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Author Topic:   Evolution or Creation
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 271 of 301 (397285)
04-25-2007 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by mark24
04-25-2007 9:49 AM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
Omnipotent: Having unlimited power, able to do anything.
Thanks, the version I get from online Oxford is:
Oxford Languages | The Home of Language Data
omnipotent
/omnippt'nt/
” adjective having unlimited or very great power.
Does that mean God has the capability of telling a lie. I would assume so.
Does that mean God can tell a Lie when it is not in His nature to do so. Not according to John.
1Joh 2:27 (KJS) But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie,, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. {in him: or, in it}
My bold.
God the Holy Spirit is the one who speaks to men and John said He is truth, and is no lie.
I would be very careful about calling God the Holy Spirit a liar, He might exist and hear whoever did.
Reference Mark 3:28, and 29.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by mark24, posted 04-25-2007 9:49 AM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by mark24, posted 04-25-2007 3:22 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 280 by nator, posted 04-25-2007 7:28 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 282 by Archer Opteryx, posted 04-26-2007 9:21 AM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 272 of 301 (397290)
04-25-2007 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by ringo
04-25-2007 10:58 AM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
some who believe they are "children of God" are not.
You are so correct.
That is why we must search as my signature says.
"All nations" plainly means all the people from those nations
You can say it all you want but you cannot make this a judgment of anything other that the nations as a whole.
Any way you look at it, nobody is exempt from the judgement.
Again you are correct. But everybody is not going to be judged at the same time.
Reve 20:5 (KJS) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The second death being the lake of fire those who have place in the first ressurection will not be condemned at a later time.
This ressurection takes place at Jesus appearing in the sky.
The judgment of the nations takes place when Jesus comes to set up His 1,000 year reign on earth.
At the end of the 1,000 years there is the Great White Throne Judgment. This is the judgment of the unsaved.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by ringo, posted 04-25-2007 10:58 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by ringo, posted 04-25-2007 12:03 PM ICANT has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 273 of 301 (397294)
04-25-2007 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by ICANT
04-25-2007 11:52 AM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
ICANT writes:
But everybody is not going to be judged at the same time.
I'll leave discussion of the judgement itself to a more appropriate thread. (I have never seen anybody successfully defend your position.)
But my point was that we don't know who is in what group. You can believe that you're in a certain elite group, but you don't know who else is.
If you believe that only a certain elite group is to be treated like Jesus, you still have to assume that anybody could be in that group. You still have to treat everybody as if they were Jesus.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2007 11:52 AM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 274 of 301 (397296)
04-25-2007 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by iceage
04-25-2007 10:43 AM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
It clearly says people. Which makes sense in the context.
You believe what you are told in the NIV preversion of the Bible if you want> I believe what the greek says myself.
you have created a modified version of Christianity.
I have said over and over again I do not claim to be a christian.
Because I an not Christ Like yet.
I do claim to be a born again child of the King.
I believe Jesus died for my sins.
I believe John 3:18
John 3:18 (KJS) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
I have believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Because of that God declared I will not be condemned.
Now spin that anyway you want to.
Get over the false belief that you have to do a bunch of good works to go to heaven.
The only thing you have to do is what is said in John 3:18. Period.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by iceage, posted 04-25-2007 10:43 AM iceage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by iceage, posted 04-25-2007 4:26 PM ICANT has not replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 275 of 301 (397351)
04-25-2007 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by ICANT
04-25-2007 11:31 AM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
ICAN'T,
You can equivocate all day long, but the corrolary is that god can't do anything he wants.
Mark

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2007 11:31 AM ICANT has not replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5914 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 276 of 301 (397362)
04-25-2007 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by ICANT
04-25-2007 12:11 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
ICANT writes:
You believe what you are told in the NIV perversion of the Bible if you want I believe what the Greek says myself.
ICANT I will ask again. Does the entire passage make sense from a "nations" point of view....
  • Are we going to be judged because of our nationality ?
  • How does a nation visit someone in prison ?
  • How does a nation visit someone sick ?
    The judgment of Matt 25:40-46 is about individuals.
    ICANT writes:
    Get over the false belief that you have to do a bunch of good works to go to heaven.
    This false belief is written explicitly in Bible and was repeatedly stressed by Jesus. What of the message of Luke 16? What is the flavor of Matthew 13?
    Matthew 13 writes:
    45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
    46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
    The meaning is the Kingdom of Heaven was of such extreme value that a Christ follower should gladly be willing to give up their wealth and comfort to obtain it.
    The overarching point is that you do not believe in evolution because of what supposedly you believe the Bible says; but interpret the Bible liberally to fit your lifestyle.
    Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 274 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2007 12:11 PM ICANT has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 277 by jar, posted 04-25-2007 5:06 PM iceage has not replied

    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 277 of 301 (397369)
    04-25-2007 5:06 PM
    Reply to: Message 276 by iceage
    04-25-2007 4:26 PM


    Re: Everything Is A Choice
    Actually, if you read all of that section in Matthew 25, it basically says that Christians are the Goats, and others (likely Atheists, certainly non-followers of Jesus) will be the Sheep.
    See Message 1 for a thread with a long discussion of that very passage.
    Christians who think they are saved will very likely get a big surprise when they do get judged. Gonna be a long line of "Born Again" rejects.
    They just don't get it.

    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 276 by iceage, posted 04-25-2007 4:26 PM iceage has not replied

    nator
    Member (Idle past 2169 days)
    Posts: 12961
    From: Ann Arbor
    Joined: 12-09-2001


    Message 278 of 301 (397386)
    04-25-2007 7:10 PM
    Reply to: Message 259 by ICANT
    04-25-2007 7:30 AM


    Re: Everything Is A Choice
    quote:
    Wrong I can say anything I want, I can believe anything I want, that does not make it True.
    The only thing that makes it true is if God said it.
    So, who decides if God said something or not?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 259 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2007 7:30 AM ICANT has not replied

    nator
    Member (Idle past 2169 days)
    Posts: 12961
    From: Ann Arbor
    Joined: 12-09-2001


    Message 279 of 301 (397388)
    04-25-2007 7:21 PM
    Reply to: Message 260 by ICANT
    04-25-2007 7:47 AM


    Re: Everything Is A Choice
    quote:
    nator, what I am trying to say is that I can tell you a lie, anybody else can tell you a lie. But God cannot tell you a lie.
    If you really want to know what God says you can take my statements or the statements of anyone else and compare them to what the Bible says.
    But then I am relying on myself to not tell me a lie, and we all know that it is easy as pie to lie to ourselves.
    What difference does it make if it is you telling me or me telling me what the Bible says and means. Either way it isn't God.
    quote:
    I use the King James 1611 Version, I think it is the most accurate English version.
    Er, no. The King James bible is known to be one of the least accurate, though also one of the most beautiful, versions of the bible. The NRSV is better.
    quote:
    When you go to compare them ask God to help you understand what you are about to read. You can do this even if you don't believe He exists. You might be supprised what He can do.
    How do I know if it is really God or if it is a demon pretending to be God? How do I know it isn't simply my own intellect, prejudices, and biases interpreting the text and I simply imagine that God is "helping" me? How do I know that I am right or wrong if I get a different interpretation than someone else? How can I tell if somebody else's interpretation is right or wrong if I can't tell if they are really getting help from God or if it is a demon pretending to be God, or simply their own imaginations that they mistakenly believe to be God?
    Edited by nator, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 260 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2007 7:47 AM ICANT has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 286 by ICANT, posted 04-26-2007 10:05 PM nator has replied

    nator
    Member (Idle past 2169 days)
    Posts: 12961
    From: Ann Arbor
    Joined: 12-09-2001


    Message 280 of 301 (397390)
    04-25-2007 7:28 PM
    Reply to: Message 271 by ICANT
    04-25-2007 11:31 AM


    Re: Everything Is A Choice
    quote:
    I would be very careful about calling God the Holy Spirit a liar, He might exist and hear whoever did.
    Every time you deny the fact of Evolution, you call God a liar.
    He left you all the evidence to see, yet you deny His handiwork that is right before your eyes.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 271 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2007 11:31 AM ICANT has not replied

    nator
    Member (Idle past 2169 days)
    Posts: 12961
    From: Ann Arbor
    Joined: 12-09-2001


    Message 281 of 301 (397488)
    04-26-2007 8:59 AM
    Reply to: Message 229 by ICANT
    04-24-2007 7:42 PM


    Re: Everything Is A Choice
    quote:
    My belief has nothing to do with science. I believe it because the Bible says it. The Bible is God's Word so that means God said it and that settles it as far as I am concerned.
    So, are the Universe and the Earth and the life on it not God's Creation?
    Are we to believe what the pre-scientific, 2000 year old human-written Bible has to say about God's Creation over what God's actual Creation shows us?
    Seems to me that you are worshipping the Bible, not God.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 229 by ICANT, posted 04-24-2007 7:42 PM ICANT has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 283 by dwise1, posted 04-26-2007 10:38 AM nator has not replied
     Message 284 by ICANT, posted 04-26-2007 9:46 PM nator has replied

    Archer Opteryx
    Member (Idle past 3597 days)
    Posts: 1811
    From: East Asia
    Joined: 08-16-2006


    Message 282 of 301 (397494)
    04-26-2007 9:21 AM
    Reply to: Message 271 by ICANT
    04-25-2007 11:31 AM


    Re: prayer wheeling & dealing
    I would be very careful about calling God the Holy Spirit a liar, He might exist and hear whoever did.
    A quintessential I Cant statement.
    Not 'I'd be careful because I might be saying something unjust.' Only 'I'd be careful because someone who can hurt me might get mad.'
    Everything's a contract. A deal. Say only nice things about Mr Deity and Mr Deity doesn't beat anyone up.
    ___
    Edited by Archer Opterix, : punctuation.
    Edited by Archer Opterix, : brev.

    Archer
    All species are transitional.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 271 by ICANT, posted 04-25-2007 11:31 AM ICANT has not replied

    dwise1
    Member
    Posts: 5930
    Joined: 05-02-2006
    Member Rating: 5.8


    Message 283 of 301 (397516)
    04-26-2007 10:38 AM
    Reply to: Message 281 by nator
    04-26-2007 8:59 AM


    Re: Everything Is A Choice
    Seems to me that you are worshipping the Bible, not God.
    No, not the Bible. But rather his fallible human interpretation of others' fallible human interpretations of what the Bible says and of what they think it should say. Such that if any of those fallible human interpretations should prove to be wrong then God does not exist or at the very least is a pathological liar.
    Yeah, they won't even take responsibility for their own actions. If they're wrong, then it's God's fault.
    And all the time that they claim to be following the "Word of God", they are instead following the "Word of Man".

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 281 by nator, posted 04-26-2007 8:59 AM nator has not replied

    ICANT
    Member
    Posts: 6769
    From: SSC
    Joined: 03-12-2007
    Member Rating: 1.5


    Message 284 of 301 (397617)
    04-26-2007 9:46 PM
    Reply to: Message 281 by nator
    04-26-2007 8:59 AM


    Re: Everything Is A Choice
    Seems to me that you are worshipping the Bible, not God.
    I haven't found a good science book yet that told me about God.

    "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 281 by nator, posted 04-26-2007 8:59 AM nator has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 285 by nator, posted 04-26-2007 9:48 PM ICANT has replied

    nator
    Member (Idle past 2169 days)
    Posts: 12961
    From: Ann Arbor
    Joined: 12-09-2001


    Message 285 of 301 (397618)
    04-26-2007 9:48 PM
    Reply to: Message 284 by ICANT
    04-26-2007 9:46 PM


    Re: Everything Is A Choice
    quote:
    I haven't found a good science book yet that told me about God.
    Every science book teaches you about God's Creation.
    But we already know that you would rather remain ignorant of the wonders of His Creation that you can see, touch, smell, hear, and taste, and instead prefer to revere the pre-scientific explanations of natural phenomena in an ancient tome.
    Why are you so afraid of knowledge, ICANT?
    Edited by nator, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 284 by ICANT, posted 04-26-2007 9:46 PM ICANT has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 287 by ICANT, posted 04-26-2007 10:17 PM nator has replied
     Message 288 by ICANT, posted 04-26-2007 10:47 PM nator has replied

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