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Author Topic:   Should the Public Airwaves be More or Less Censored?
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 233 of 310 (397632)
04-26-2007 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by ReverendDG
04-26-2007 2:20 PM


Re: No to Censorship
see this is what i'm talking about, cheers to you! you make it sound like you are a martyr for being a parent.
sorry but this is what you get for having kids, if you don't like the tv get rid of it, or accept it.
Bullshit, it's America, I can voice my opinion, and try and do something about it, if it does prove to be valid, and with the release of several studies done lately, it seems I do havbe a valid point. Funny thing is, I did not need a study to realize what I am talking about.
"you can only understand when you are a parent!"
It's true.
Maybe you should respect that, seems like enough people have told you already.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by ReverendDG, posted 04-26-2007 2:20 PM ReverendDG has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 234 of 310 (397633)
04-26-2007 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by Rahvin
04-26-2007 2:59 PM


Re: No to Censorship
Are you dense? That "study" simply discusses the amount of violence present in childrens programming
Shouldn't your brain take over from there?
Show me a single, conclusive study done by an unbiased (ie, a major state university) source that says "violent programming has this specific detrimental effect when shown to young children," and I'll concede the point.
It's coming, it was released today, waiting for it to surface on the net.
I didn't say that, so I'd appreciate if you got your quotes straight.
Of course you didn't say that, do you need to point that out?
I try to condense my posts on occasion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Rahvin, posted 04-26-2007 2:59 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by kuresu, posted 04-26-2007 11:28 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 237 by Rahvin, posted 04-26-2007 11:34 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 235 of 310 (397634)
04-26-2007 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by Rahvin
04-26-2007 3:07 PM


Re: Let them eat "boobies"
I wonder if Rat, or anyone else, can point to the age where exactly breasts become "dangerous." I mean, since we censor them and the other sexual organs as if they would surely burn our retinas and turn our children into rampaging monsters, there must be a point where the child no longer says "mmm, lunch!"
Why does this need to be explained to you?
Isn't it obvious, that breasts alone are not offensive, but the context in which they are presented?
A girl in a bikini, could be twice as harmful to a child based on the context, compared to a naked/statue/breast feeding picture
(omg that was so funny)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Rahvin, posted 04-26-2007 3:07 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Rahvin, posted 04-26-2007 11:42 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 241 of 310 (397679)
04-27-2007 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 237 by Rahvin
04-26-2007 11:34 PM


Re: No to Censorship
So, you ARE dense. Let me spell it out: showing that the level of violence present in childrens programming is increasing has absoluitely nothing whatsoever to do with showing that the violence is damaging or harming the children.
"A national opinion poll shows that 80% of Americans believe television violence is harmful to society."
from: FCC V-Chip Fact Sheet, 7/1/99
We don't need a survey to tell us that we as a nation feel violence is harmful to society. So it only stands to reason, that an increase in violence on TV, is not a good thing, and the airwaves need to be more censored.
.....
I think I found the link here:
I love this awesome quote:
"While the Constitution protects the right to speak, it certainly doesn't protect a right to get paid for that speech."
and
The FCC study was requested in 2004 by a bipartisan group of 39 House members and will set the stage for legislation. Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.) said he planned to introduce a bill in the next few weeks.
"Violent television content is reaching epidemic proportions," he said. He called protecting children from extremely violent shows "one of the most critical communication issues of our time."
I'd ask that you specify to whom you are replying, then, just to make it easier to respond for the rest of us.
my bad

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Rahvin, posted 04-26-2007 11:34 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by nator, posted 04-27-2007 9:34 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 249 by Rahvin, posted 04-27-2007 4:39 PM riVeRraT has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 242 of 310 (397680)
04-27-2007 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by Rahvin
04-26-2007 11:42 PM


Re: Let them eat "boobies"
HOW does it harm children? HOW are "boobies" somehow dangerous? HOW do sexual organs being visible, or honest discussions about sex harm children?
Where you understanding what I wrote at all?
I did not say they harm children. IT's all about the context they are shown in.
Telling your child that a woman can get pregnant from a man inserting his penis in her vagina, is way different that telling a child that John gets his rocks off when french fucking Sally, while spot the dog licks her anus. :frazzeled:
Can you point to any actual real-world harm caused by nudity or consensual sex being shown, other than your discomfort and personal gut reaction?
I would say porn altered my view of things when I was a child, and that I was exposed to it, a little too early in life. It took many years to understand and see how this happened.
There are many things I would have not desired if I had not seen them before I was ready to make intelligent decisions about whether they are good for me or not.
humor disclaimer:
Now I am a sick, perverted, kinky bastard who wants sex all the time

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Rahvin, posted 04-26-2007 11:42 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Rahvin, posted 04-27-2007 7:04 PM riVeRraT has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 243 of 310 (397681)
04-27-2007 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by Rahvin
04-27-2007 12:02 AM


Re: No to Censorship
Thank you for not simply talking out of your ass like Rat.
Hey! my ass is smart!
Realistically, only a child's parents can possibly tell whether a child is being adversely affected by anything as nebulous as media exposure, violent or otherwise,
I am a parent with 5 children. I have witnessed it in all of them, from violent video games, to wrestling on TV.
So I am not talking out of my ass, and I do not need a mint, thank you.
I think even Rat will agree that two children from two different families can have compeltely different reactions to identical exposure to media based on other factors including their culture's societal norms and taboos, and their relationships with their parents.
Yes, agreed. But either way, as that level is increased, it does more harm than good.
Rat is complaining that an ad for Desperate Housewives was shown on television while his kids were watching.
You need to stop singling that out. My original complaint was that a bunch of 3-7 year olds witnessed a person getting his head blown off in full detail during a basketball game on a Sunday afternoon.
You wouldn't have to watch TV long to see something just as disturbing, as the FCC states in it's fact sheet:
An hour of prime-time television includes about five violent acts.1 An hour of children's Saturday morning programming includes 20 to 26 violent acts.
I think we all can agree that TV is violent, and that it has been steadily increasing in violence since it's inception.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Rahvin, posted 04-27-2007 12:02 AM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by nator, posted 04-27-2007 9:47 AM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 246 by ringo, posted 04-27-2007 10:08 AM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 250 of 310 (397772)
04-27-2007 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by nator
04-27-2007 9:34 AM


Re: No to Censorship
A really good article about scientific illiteracy in the US and Europe. It isn't good news
I have been saying that for years. As a matter of fact, I pointed that out here once, and I got ridiculed for it, I think it was you.
Does that mean that ESP really exists, or does it only mean that people believe it does?
No it means that people like the idea of ESP, just like they don't approve of violence on TV.
Reality is not determined by majority belief.
That is why this newest study released by the FCC confirms already what everyone believes.
Come on nator, your the big live by sirvey person, what's the matter, because this one doesn't rub you the right way, it's no good?
I will also say it again, I don't need a freakin study to tell me that too much violence on TV is no good for our youth. It's as easy as pie.
But what we have been talking about is violence in children's programming on TV, and if it has a harmful effect upon children, not all violence in society.
Please do not move the goalposts.
Sorry, I meant to say violence on TV.
You have not demonstrated that children seeing violence on TV results in more violent behavior, or damages children in any way.
The FCC has.
I am not saying that it doesn't harm them, by the way. I am open to the idea that it isn't good.
I am extremely glad for that, and I have restored faith now.
I think it is likely that you are misremembering.
Hell no. And it was many years ago. You don't forget something like that. Either way, I see too much violence on TV, everyday. Haven't you read the facts link?
Violence on TV exists, and in huge quantities, there is no denying that. The networks make money off of showing you and your children this violence.
Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by nator, posted 04-27-2007 9:34 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Rahvin, posted 04-27-2007 6:58 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 256 by nator, posted 04-27-2007 9:23 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 251 of 310 (397773)
04-27-2007 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by ringo
04-27-2007 10:08 AM


No. I don't agree with that.
How old are you? There has been a steady increase in violence on TV over the last 36 years I have been watching it, and the study by the PTC confirms that.
You'll have to explain why you don't agree, unless you were just making fun of how I expressed it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by ringo, posted 04-27-2007 10:08 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by ringo, posted 04-27-2007 7:04 PM riVeRraT has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 252 of 310 (397776)
04-27-2007 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Cthulhu
04-27-2007 3:42 PM


Re: No to Censorship
And what, pray tell, could someone possibly put on TV that would hurt a child's mind?
Violence.
how do feral children act? They act the way they were taught.
Expose enough violence to a child, and without proper supervision, or even with proper supervision (whatever that is) it has an affect on the brain.
Well, judging from past examples, the cause of that would likely be preexisting mental illnesses and/or years of psychological abuse by peers. Neither of which television have any effect on.
I wouldn't bank on that, but by the same token, I am not blaming TV wholly, but partly. Maybe even a small part, but none the less, He was a by-product of his surroundings. There is a thread on it elsewhere.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Cthulhu, posted 04-27-2007 3:42 PM Cthulhu has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 257 of 310 (398541)
05-01-2007 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by Rahvin
04-27-2007 6:58 PM


Re: No to Censorship
READ YOUR OWN FUCKING SOURCE!
It confirms NOTHING! It simply restates "a lot of people don;t like this." It says jack and shit about any objective HARM being caused!
I guess violence hasn't affected you.
It says: A national opinion poll shows that 80% of Americans believe television violence is harmful to society.
I may be guessing this, but I feel this way also, and they probably feel that way because they can see the affects of watching violence in thier own lives, and do not need a stupid study to confirm this.
The fact sheet also continues to say:
The National Television Violence Study identifies three primary effects TV violence has on children: 1) learning aggressive attitudes and behaviors; 2) becoming desensitized to real world violence; and 3) developing a fear of being victimized by violence.
This was a 3 year study, and the study confirms this.
So not only does the majority of the American public feel this way, the study proves this. Why are you still arguing the opposite?
It seems what I have been saying all along is correct, and I am not the fool that people have tried to make me out to be.
Which doesnt mean the violence is harmful, any more than ESP exists.
Proving ESP exists, and knowing if watching violence is harmful are two different things, with different circumstances, another failed comparison.
No, they have not.
Yes, they have:
Young children, especially under age seven, often cannot distinguish reality from fantasy on television. However, they are capable of imitating and learning from violence in cartoons.
In a University of Illinois study, people who had watched the most violent TV between birth and age eight committed the most serious crimes by age 30.
Also, everyone's suggestion about v-chips to me, can be thrown out the window. As I stated, v-chips are not effective, and the current ratings systems are voluntary.
quote:
The FCC also concluded that existing technology meant to block unwanted programming, such as the V-chip found in many TV sets, is often ineffective. It also criticized the voluntary TV ratings system that warns of violent content.
From here: http://www.thestate.com/426/story/49024.html
Apperently the report was released, but I do not know where to find it. These articles only give excerpts from it.
http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/180152
Wait, I found it.
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/...blic/attachmatch/FCC-07-50A1.doc
I havne't had a chance to read it, I will tomorrow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Rahvin, posted 04-27-2007 6:58 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Rahvin, posted 05-02-2007 9:53 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 258 of 310 (398604)
05-01-2007 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by nator
04-27-2007 9:23 PM


Re: No to Censorship
I am suggesting that you are misremembering. Like you said, it was many years ago. It is very easy to embellish such a memory and to get details wrong, such as time of day. I have done it myself, many times, for events much more recent than "many years" in the past. Everyone does it, because that's the way memory works.
You could easily be constructing a false memory and have conflated two or more incidents into one, for example.
I agree with all that, but this was so outstanding in my memory, and I talked about it frequently over the years, so I would not have forgotten it.
That's why I asked you to report what you remember about it. For example, what year was it? What teams were playing? What time of year was it? What was the nature of the "head blowing off" broadcast; news story or ad for a program? If it was a program, which one was it? If it was a news story, was it local or national?
Not sure the year, but I have trouble remembering years, it was about 5-7 years ago, as I remeber my nieces being about 4 years old, and they are 9-10 now.
Knicks were playing, on NBC, and the nature of it was a commercial for a movie.
I mean all of this is irrelevent anyway, according to the FCC fact sheet:
American television is the most violent in the world. About 60% of TV programs contain violence. An hour of prime-time television includes about five violent acts.1 An hour of children's Saturday morning programming includes 20 to 26 violent acts.
The average American child will witness 12,000 violent acts on television each year, amounting to about 200,000 violent acts by the time he turns 18 years old.
200,000 violent acts? And this has no affect on the children?
Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by nator, posted 04-27-2007 9:23 PM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by kuresu, posted 05-01-2007 6:18 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 260 by DrJones*, posted 05-01-2007 8:41 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 261 of 310 (398702)
05-02-2007 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by kuresu
05-01-2007 6:18 PM


Re: No to Censorship
Can't say what effect it had on me aside from that. As in, what effect? Have I become more violent? I try to not fight. don't like to. warped my "fragile" mind?
I was wondering that very thing this morning.
As a Christian, I believe it is in our heart to know God, and to be peaceful and loving. Even if your not a Christian, there must some kind of interneal battle that goes on, when all around you are acts of violence, and yet we desire to be loved, and to love.
But you ask yourself a good question, just how does it affect you? I am glad you are asking.
Most of those kiddie shows have minor violent acts.
So then ask yourself (or just read the study, and the several other study's that it quotes done over the last 30 years) just what does it do to our kids. Maybe you'll change your mind about it.
If anything, at least I made you aware.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by kuresu, posted 05-01-2007 6:18 PM kuresu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by nator, posted 05-03-2007 11:36 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 262 of 310 (398704)
05-02-2007 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by DrJones*
05-01-2007 8:41 PM


Re: No to Censorship
That makes it sound like even more BS, the MPAA (the agency that gives out the movie ratings) has final approval over all forms of a film's advertising, they would never let that kind of content air in a TV spot at any time of day.
Listen, you don't have to believe me, but then again, you do not have to watch TV long at all to see what I am talking about.
BTW, ratings are voluntary.
Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by DrJones*, posted 05-01-2007 8:41 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by DrJones*, posted 05-02-2007 3:17 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 266 of 310 (398968)
05-03-2007 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by DrJones*
05-02-2007 3:17 PM


Re: No to Censorship
I've been watching TV for almost 30 years now and I have never seen a person getting their head blown off in "full detail" in a commercial at any time of day.
I have only seen it once in 35+ years, so it is not the norm. However, this conversation is not limited to this one isolated inccident, but several that happen by the hour, as the report concludes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by DrJones*, posted 05-02-2007 3:17 PM DrJones* has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 267 of 310 (398970)
05-03-2007 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 264 by Rahvin
05-02-2007 9:53 PM


Re: No to Censorship
100% of people used to believe the Earth is flat. They were wrong. A survey showing how many people, even if it's the majority of people, feel or believe a certain way is evidence only of how they feel. It has no relationship whatsoever to reality.
If 100% of the people do not want Hillary in office, then guess what.
No, you're still wrong. Here's what your study, quoted directly, says:
quote:6.research provides strong evidence that exposure to violence in the media can increase aggressive behavior in children, at least in the short term.
quote:There has been some dispute regarding the amount of research in the field of television violence and aggression.
You have unfairly quoted the survey, and took things out of context.
There are studys that show it happens for the long run too, and they are included in the report.
There have been close to 200-250 studys done on violence on TV, and it's affects on children.
Your taking those quotes out of context is so bad, it is just about lying.
Some of the thousands of studies that have done show a possible correlation with increased aggressive behavior, increased antisocial behavior, and fear of being victimized by violence after viewing violence in the media.
There has not been thousands of studys, on this particular subject.
What's even more funny, is that I think a few people claimed in this thread, that there never has been a study that reveals what I am talking about, yet there has been hundreds.
You're acting like this study proves that violence on TV makes kids go outside and fight, torture puppies, and pull the legs off of spiders. That's not the case. It shows a correlation. Perhaps the children who watch violent media simply have parents who don't pay any attention to their kids - not only what they watch, but also in providing them the basic set of rules like "don't kick Jimmy, even if you see it on TV." The harm, there, is in the parents who don't help their kids learn. And that can be done without censorship.
Those are the same kids, that will be hanging out with your kids.
As I recall, you're the one who used that analogy. I was simply refuting you.
No I wasn't. I try to stay away from comparisons, unless they are relative.
Which is a correlation, not causation. That study does not prove that violent TV causes violent behavior, only that they are correlated. Knives are correllated with stabbings. Do knives cause stabbings? Or is the presence of a knife simply an enabling factor for an unrelated cause?
I think you need a wake-up call.
Voluntary doesn't mean ineffective,
The FCC confirms that v-chips are not completely effective.
It also has absolutely nothing to do with whether violent imagery causes harm.
I never said it does.
Aren't you a conservative, Rat?
No, I am not.
I believe in Jesus and God, that does not make me a conservative, or a fundie, I wish people here would stop that shit.
Whose responsibility is it to raise YOUR kids? I don't think it's Uncle Sam's. I think parents should take responsibility for raising their own children, and not try to force their views and shift the blame onto everybody else.
It is very simple, I don't want my kids catching all these violent acts on television, or the kids my kids hang otu with. It is like an infectious desease, and there is no way it can be good for the youth of our nation. There is absoloutly no call for all this violence.
And the same right that I have to take TV out of my house, gives me the right to voice my opinion. TV is public, so the public should have something to say about it. If you don't agree, then you are un-American.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Rahvin, posted 05-02-2007 9:53 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by kuresu, posted 05-03-2007 1:50 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 271 by Rahvin, posted 05-03-2007 2:29 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 273 by nator, posted 05-03-2007 11:46 PM riVeRraT has replied

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