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Author Topic:   Did the sky really go dark as biblical inerrantists insist?
Garrett
Member (Idle past 6192 days)
Posts: 111
From: Dallas, TX
Joined: 02-10-2006


Message 107 of 113 (397731)
04-27-2007 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by purpledawn
04-19-2007 7:36 AM


Re: Darkened Sky
Are you claiming that only Luke mentions the darkness or splitting vernacular hairs about the difference between "darkened sky" and "darkness over the land"?
Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
Mark 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.
Luke 23:44-48 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
If the darkness was "over" the whole land, doesn't that suggest that the sky darkened? Based on this I'd say that Mathew, Mark and Luke mentioned the darkness leaving only John as the exception that did not. Further, based on your own statement that Mark is believed to have been written first....that seems pretty good evidence that it wasn't added at a later point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by purpledawn, posted 04-19-2007 7:36 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by purpledawn, posted 04-27-2007 4:21 PM Garrett has not replied

  
Garrett
Member (Idle past 6192 days)
Posts: 111
From: Dallas, TX
Joined: 02-10-2006


Message 108 of 113 (397733)
04-27-2007 3:05 PM


Extrabiblical Evidence Darkness
I'm guessing you will have objections to each of these examples, but it's at the least disingenuous to say there weren't extrabiblical accounts of this event. I would suggest the possibility that records did exist but have since become extant.. Documents from that period can be hard to come by for verification...this is what made the Dead Sea Scrolls such a large discovery.
1.)Origen (3rd century) mentioned a statement by the Roman historian Phlegon, who described the darkness event (Against Celsus II.33).
2.)Tertullian also references not only the event, but the fact that it had been recorded in the records when speaking to a pagan audience he sai "you yourselves have the account of the world-portent still in your archives" (Apology XXI). There is no record of anyone challenging that assertion.
3.)Africanus, also a 3rd century writer, also references Phlegon's account in fragment 18 of his "History". Below is an excerpt:
"On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun. For the Hebrews celebrate the passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the passion of our Saviour falls on the day before the passover but an eclipse of the sun takes place only when the moon comes under the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time but in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last of the old, that is, at their junction: how then should an eclipse be supposed to happen when the moon is almost diametrically opposite the sun? Let that opinion pass however let it carry the majority with it and let this portent of the world be deemed an eclipse of the sun, like others a portent only to the eye. Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth-manifestly that one of which we speak. But what has an eclipse in common with an earthquake, the rending rocks, and the resurrection of the dead, and so great a perturbation throughout the universe? Surely no such event as this is recorded for a long period. But it was a darkness induced by God, because the Lord happened then to suffer."
4.) Philipon, a 4th century historian, also referenced these 1st century accounts:
"Phlegon mentioned the eclipse which took place during the crucifixion of the Lord Christ Jesus Christ and no other [eclipse] it is clear that he did not know from his sources about any eclipse in previous times (De opif. mund. II 21)."
5.)Eusebius, a 4th century historian, also referenced first century accounts:
"Jesus Christ underwent his passion in the 18th year of Tiberius [32 AD]. Also at that time in another Greek compendium we find an event recorded in these words: "The sun was eclipsed, Bithynia was struck by an earthquake, and in the city of Nicaea many buildings fell." All these things happened to occur during the Lord's passion. In fact, Phlegon, too, a distinguished reckoner of Olympiads, wrote more on these events in his 13th book, saying this: "Now, in the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad [AD 32], a great eclipse of the sun occurred at the sixth hour [noon] that excelled every other before it, turning the day into such darkness of night that the stars could be seen in heaven, and the earth moved in Bithynia, toppling many buildings in the city of Nicaea" (Chronicle, vol II).
That's quite a bit of extrabiblical evidence.

Replies to this message:
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