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Author Topic:   Bishop Bell's Behemoth, Or The Paleontological Prelate
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 1 of 23 (397420)
04-25-2007 9:51 PM


The following would appear to be facts:
* Bishop Bell died in 1495 or 1496.
* The brasswork of Bishop Bell's tomb is decorated with a number of animal images; the images below are clearly meant to be more animals.
* If we had to identify these animals from the rather crude engravings, then certainly the one at the front of the picture looks more like a standard quadrapedal dinosaur than anything else.
* Tampering with the image would involve removing whatever was engraved there and engraving something else, while the brass was affixed to the foloor in the middle of Carlisle Cathedral. Besides the implausibility of any such hoax, there is also no evidence whatsoever that anything like this ever happened.
* All the geological evidence we have suggests that dinosaurs went extinct around the end of the Cretaceous period.
* No chronicler records dinosaurs or anything like them roaming around fifteenth century England.
* The Cathedral and other old buildings of Carlisle are built out of red sandstone quarried locally. *
* In the late fifteenth century, the Fratry (monastic institution) just opposite the Cathedral, was almost entirely rebuilt *, out of this same red sandstone. A picture of the Fratry can be seen here.
* Looking at a geological map, *, we find that Carlisle is situated in an area of Upper Triassic bedrock. (Carlisle is not marked on the map, but you can find it here By looking at the geological map in the same spot, we can see that it's built on stratum 15, i.e. the Upper Triassic.
* Basal dinosaurs such as the Melanorosauridae [Palaeos: Page not found] are known from English rocks of the Upper Triassic, and were quadrapedal like the dinosaurs on Bishop Bell's tomb.
* People who have never seen living dinosaurs can still draw pictures of them, as demonstrated by the picture of a melanosaurid below.
---
The following is conjecture:
* In the late fifteenth century, Cumbrian quarrymen unearthed the fossil bones of a Triassic dinosaur. They drew this to the attention of the local clergy, who were able to make a crude reconstruction of the beast by studying its bones.
It is, however, a conjecture which fits the facts.
What do you think? Is this plausible?
Does anyone have an explanation which fits the facts better?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Coragyps, posted 04-25-2007 10:13 PM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 4 by PaulK, posted 04-26-2007 1:53 AM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 5 by sidelined, posted 04-26-2007 7:07 AM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 7 by jar, posted 04-26-2007 9:58 AM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 14 by anastasia, posted 04-26-2007 10:15 PM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 16 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 04-27-2007 11:49 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 12 of 23 (397613)
04-26-2007 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by sidelined
04-26-2007 7:07 AM


Discrepancy In Detail
Well it appears to me that there are discrepancies in detail. For instance what are we to make of those projections from the shoulders of the beast on the right? Certainly those are not found on Melanorosauridae are they?
I'm not sure what's going on there, or why the beast's back doesn't seem to be drawn in. I'd like to see another photograph --- AiG have some, but their website isn't working. (Honestly, I sacrifice goats, I pray to Beelzebub, and then when their website does finally go down I want to look at it --- there's no justice, is there?)
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 13 of 23 (397614)
04-26-2007 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
04-26-2007 9:58 AM


Beastiary
I love the cute little wyvern.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 17 of 23 (397895)
04-28-2007 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by AnswersInGenitals
04-27-2007 11:49 PM


My information about Bell is scanty; I think the only things I know that I haven't mentioned are that his first name was Richard and that he took over as Bishop in 1477, before which he was prior of Finchale.
I can tell you what the inscription says --- in Latin.
I have small Latin and less Greek, so I'm not sure what all of it means.
quote:
In the middle of the choir is a monument to Bishop Bell. On a blue slab under a triple canopy, the centre pediment of which has I.H.S., and its point the Deity and Christ, is a brass figure of a bishop in pontificalibus, mitre and gloves; his right hand holds on his breast an open book inscribed”
Hec mea
Spes in sinu meo
His left hand, over which hangs the maniple, has a rich crosier. On a semi-circular scroll over his head”
Credo qd redemptor meus vivit et novissio die de terra surrectur
su et in Carne mea videbo deu salvatore meu.
Under his feet”
Hac marmor fossa Bell presulis en tenet ossa
Duresme dudu prior his post pontificatu
Gessit atq' renuit primum super omia querit
Dispiciens mudu poscendo pramia fratru
On the ledge round the slab”
Hic jacet Reverendus Pater Ricardus Bell quondam Episcopus Karleolensis qui ab hac luce migravit videlicet vicesimo Quarto die ... Anno Domini.... Et omnium fidelium defunctorum. per misericordiam dei requiescant in perpetua pace. Amen.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 20 of 23 (397931)
04-28-2007 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by anastasia
04-28-2007 11:09 AM


I don't know about funerary adornment of the time, but take a look at this list of some illustrations found elsewhere in Carlisle Cathedral! One would have to make a case for skeletal remains being found for all of these other 'animals'. In context of the whole, this particular 'dinosaur' certainly does lose its impact.
But this one looks like a dinosaur.
Well ... more like a dinosaur than anything else.
Dragon and lion in combat.
Well that's a wussy dragon.
Real dragons throttle elephants, St Isidore of Seville says so.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by anastasia, posted 04-28-2007 11:53 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 22 of 23 (397935)
04-28-2007 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by anastasia
04-28-2007 11:53 AM


I know, you said, they're on misericordes.
That doesn't change the fact that a dragon fighting a mere lion is a lightweight lizard, a wimpish wyrm, and a feeble firedrake.

This message is a reply to:
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