Guns

And this is an argument for or against personal gun possession? I'm seriously hoping the latter...

A few posts late but I wonder if perhaps someone, brennakimi maybe, could tell me what the American public intends to do once they decide their goverment has become too fascist?This is often stated when people are defending the right to have guns. I wonder what would they do with these guns? This is the same population that is very proud to have the most powerful, modern, and best trained militay force in the world.I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your going to need bigger guns.

Well, do you know the reason the hospital takes prints of newborns' feet?

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I love the way you throw statistics at me instead of acknowledging that there's nothing you can say to undermine the specific points I made, nator. Really wish you and nuggin wouldn't resort to creationist tactics like this.

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Actually, the statistics do rather undermine your specific points. And it is hardly a creationist tactic to provide legitimate statistical information in order to counter a claim.

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So it sounds to me like it was somebody already in the house, using the most convenient method. Sadly, we've already covered this--he's almost always a larger, faster specimen who could take her out without a gun with VERY little risk of mortal injury.

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Yes, but what the statistic shows is that in homes where all other things are equal BUT there are no guns, women are far less likely to be killed.Gun in house = greater liklihood of woman being killed.

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Gunshots are loud as hell, so either way people will probably call the cops on him. If he used a silencer, that's illegal. That further proves that criminals will always have stuff we're not supposed to.

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So, he shoots her dead, then people call the cops.Great. She's still dead.

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Either-or FALLACY. There are weapons EVERYWHERE, even in the abscence of guns: Shoes, chairs, silverwear, letter openers, belts, metal combs, blow driers, pencils, printer, PS2, hammer, screwdriver, drill&bits, heavy bicycle helmet, heavy lamp, loose mattress spring, hookah, broomsticks, plungers, pillows, staplers (that was just my own hole-in-the-wall off campus living; just think what's in a real house. For the record, I don't personally use the hookah.)

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I think that the statistic used the word "weapon" to mean "gun".How easy is it to kill someone with a shoe, compared to a gun, do you think?

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OH, and for that last one? Clearly there's something wrong with people who would abuse their spouses in the first place. Let's work on the problem of crazy people a little more actively before we take away the power for the sane to defend themselves.

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...but in the meantime, thousands of women will die, and that's OK with you.Got it.Edited by nator, : No reason given.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

you say this as though i'm going to be offended by it.it's not an honor system. there is a criminal system to respond to and punish those who offend.

the 24 hour time out was irrelevant because i'm not upset, and you're still making up shit.scraf did come up with some numbers. but not the ones i ask you for.

so you know that you are purposely conflating the issue. okay. that makes it all better.

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Granted, in this instance, not as many.

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Not as many?He'd have been lucky to have killed even one or two. Even if people had been lining up to be killed by him, and offered no resistance, sheer physical exhaustion would have set in after about one or two people.You have a very strange and unrrealistic image of how easy it is to kill someone by stabbing or by blunt force compared to with a gun.

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But the damage count could've still been high if he did it at night, where only a few people were around, and in different places as he did.

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But what would the death count have been, do you think?

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So I guess that sucks for the now defenseless housewife when a homocidal maniac breaks into her house and is about to break the lock to her bedroom?

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The quote of mine above was in response to you saying this in a previous message about Cho, the kid who killed all those people at VT:

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all the bans in the world won't prevent people from losing it one way or another.

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My point is that if he hadn't been able to so easily buy a gun, and instead only had access to knives, pipe wrenches, and pool cues, we wouldn't have seen over thirty murders and a suicide when he "lost it".And about the "homicidal maniac" in the woman's house?In 1998, for every one time a woman used a handgun to kill a stranger in self-defense, 302 women were murdered in handgun homicides.

So, you are rejecting the researcher's conclusion that guns in a house was a strong inducement to burglery?AbE: So where is your study that comes to a different conclusion than the one I provided?Edited by nator, : No reason given.

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difficult, yes. impossible, no.

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I never suggested that we ban all private ownership of all firearms.

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remember the idea of invasion. we may think we're immune, but we aren't. not to mention our own government which is getting more fascist by the day.

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Unless you are suggesting that all private citizens stockpile scads of military weapons, rockets, greandes, and mines, just what do you think a shotgun or two and some handguns are going to do against an invading foreign army, or the combined firepower of the US armed forces should martial law be imposed in the US? Stats on gun deaths in Japan and Stwitzerland (and other countries).Might be a slightly biased source but the stats are legit. Edited by nator, : No reason given.

i wasn't discussing this as a reason for gun ownership. i don't think individual protection has anything to do with the issue. i was referring to the fact that you seem to think that there's no real threat of rape. do you know six women? do you know that each of them lives wondering whether the next one is going to be her? you do understand that one in six is close enough to every woman ever when every one of those other five lives in fear of it. also, from what i can tell, those statistics of one in six and 200,000 reports are worldwide. there's no way that there are only 200,000 rapes worldwide in a year, not to mention if we add in assault. further, there's no discussion of distribution. are you insensitive on purpose, or does it just happen?
if you really want me to, i can go off about all the various ways i've been sexually assaulted and all the varisou ways my friends have been assaulted and all the various ways various insensitive people have assaulted women because they simply didn't care enough to be sure they were being appropriate. but i thought i'd be brief.also, for those later in the thread who seem to think that being groped isn't really so bad. try it. sexual assault is the act of taking over the power another person has over his own body and using that power to violate him. it doesn't matter how "bad" that violation is, it is the nature not the degree of violation that matters. think about it this way. is it okay for daddy to just grope his little girl as long as he doesn't have sex with her? if it's not okay in this situation, there's nothing about growing up that makes it okay.the law here defines sexual assault as

i know. which is why i've decided to start opposing all size- or action-based gun control. it would be hard, that is why it is vital to first be wholly involved politically, it's not really the system that's broken, just those running it. i would hope that they would look up from their tv screens long enough to do ANYTHING, but i'm really not so sure.

just checking. i think the issue really is that there used to be stocked armories in almost every city. a few dozen fairly armed citizens could easily take an armory. but those have been turned into dance halls for old people. do we have a fighting chance? not really. but we should.

what about a non-stranger?

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If a woman keeps a handgun in her purse, she can use it as a weapon much more easily than mace or a knife.

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