Do we talk up or down to fundies?

Nightrain:I tried that with Percy and Nosy. Let em state their case, even agree with the correct points, and then ask the question which exposes the weak link and point of tension. But they only became confused and wished it away.Here it is with Nosy: http://EvC Forum: Information and purpose or no purpose. -->EvC Forum: Information and purpose or no purpose.And Percy: http://EvC Forum: Information and purpose or no purpose. -->EvC Forum: Information and purpose or no purpose.By the way, Jesus also said not to resist an evil person (I'm having difficulty learning the discipline). But He did know how to use thier own words against them by asking the proper question and revealing the false assumptions.I personally reccommend that all of you continue to talk down to us 'fundies'. It is what character building is made of. When I am no longer offended, I will have mastered the discipline.Oh, and thanks!

Percy:That is the question isn't it?Jesus told us how...I already know I am an evil person. It is you who need to see yourself as you really are. Even that makes no sense to you in your tower of righteousness. So that is how I know.As for the comments being mine, I know... that was the point; to show Nighttrain how I had used his suggested technique.It failed because the hearer has no ears to hear or eyes to see.Edited by Rob, : No reason given.Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

HM:Everything?Even Rape, murder, slander, etc...?I knew that comment was going to cause the food critics to start opining.The context implicit in my admission of evil and sin, is that I had to doubt myself, before I could come to Christ.But since so many do not ever consider that they are evil, they do not need God.So... Percy's question was really for himself, not I. I have already questioned myself. And that is what led me to my present worldview.

qs:Ever here of Andrei Sakharov?He was one of the evil guys. And then He turned. That does not mean he is pure as the wind driven snow. It only means that he is willing to submit to the truth and grow.It is actually a simple concept Archer. A student of mathematics is always a student.A student (or disciple) of Christ is never 'the christ', he is only a student.That's it really...God is good, and we are evil. That is what I believe... He is moral, we are not. But not in the extreme sense that you guys always interpret such things in.It is in manner of relationship; student / teacher, God / man.look at it this way...1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us...10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.Not complicated... Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

HM:At least partially...But isn't it telling that we expect them not to be?I think human beings are far more complex than mere animals. If for no other reason, we expect them not to act like animals.Does that not give you pause?Because if you are correct, then what exactly did Cho do at Virginia Tech which was unnatural?And consider this... if everything is natural, then from where did the idea of that which is 'unatural' (religion) originate?Can Richard Dawkins claim that Christians are diseased, as though it is 'unnatural' or worse yet... 'evil'?If you really examine those questions carefully, I think you will quickly see that the moral implications are hideous. In fact, I believe Darwin made a remark to that extent (I'll try to find it).I am not suggesting that you or anyone else is supporting the philosophy I am about to invoke (so do not take this as such), but it is clear that it led to Hitler's conclusions. And that is not to deny Stalin or the others of their proper glory in the same boat.I am not saying that invoking this disjunction between morality and naturalism is a final answer either...I am suggesting you think about it. Some of these things you must see for yourself. It does me no good to declare them, if no-one takes the time to 'digest the offering'. Edited by Rob, : No reason given.Edited by AdminPD, : Warning - Get to the topic

HM:Do you think ancient dreams of heaven are unnatural?If not, why would you mess with mother nature?

Not one to be cornered are you?At least your consistent!