Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   THE SIMPLICITY OF THE COMPLEX SYSTEMS - essay about origin of Life
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5500 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 12 of 29 (397805)
04-27-2007 7:33 PM


whole>parts
General question relevant to the OP: Is water more than oxygen and hydrogen?
”HM

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by b_sharp, posted 05-01-2007 4:13 PM Fosdick has replied
 Message 20 by miosim, posted 05-06-2007 12:14 AM Fosdick has not replied
 Message 26 by miosim, posted 05-07-2007 9:35 PM Fosdick has not replied

  
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5500 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 15 of 29 (398602)
05-01-2007 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by b_sharp
05-01-2007 4:13 PM


Re: whole>parts
b_sharp wrote:
HM asked:
General question relevant to the OP: Is water more than oxygen and hydrogen?
I think a better question would be, are the properties of water (H2O) predictable from the properties of oxygen, hydrogen and their interactions?
In my opinion, the definition of emergence as a list of properties of the combination different from the properties of the individual components as overly broad. A more precise definition would be an 'unexpected' consequence of the combining of components given their properties. However, this means that what we consider to be emergent properties will change as we learn to more accurately predict changes in properties upon combination from initial properties.
I'll have to agree with you. Water is unpredictbable from its pre-combined elements.
”HM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by b_sharp, posted 05-01-2007 4:13 PM b_sharp has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by b_sharp, posted 05-01-2007 8:18 PM Fosdick has replied

  
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5500 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 17 of 29 (398734)
05-02-2007 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by b_sharp
05-01-2007 8:18 PM


Re: whole>parts
b_sharp commented:
HM:
I'll have to agree with you. Water is unpredictbable from its pre-combined elements.
Actually I'd have to say that water's place within the 'emergent' household has just been lost.
Apparently water's properties are now predictable.
Very timely and relevant article. This must be a first. Scientists have used quantum mechanics and clusters of LINUX computers to “flush out the hidden properties of water,” revealing that water is far more "complex" than it was previous thought to be. Makes me wonder just what "complexity" means when water is seen as an increasingly complex structure. Does "complexity" have a seamless definition that extends across Newtonian, relativistic, and quantum-mechanical contexts? Does water become more or less complex when it freezes? Does water have any other hidden properties that need to be "flushed out"?
”HM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by b_sharp, posted 05-01-2007 8:18 PM b_sharp has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024