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Member (Idle past 2521 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Why are all Christians atheists? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2198 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Why?
quote: Why? I have no idea where anybody ever got the idea that gods have to be "nice" or "good" to be gods. Likewise, I have no idea where anybody ever got the idea that the "correct" god could be determined by her "niceness" or "goodness" There is no logical reason at all to conclude this.
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nator Member (Idle past 2198 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
A Hindu doesn't disparage you for practicing Catholocism.
A Hindu would just consider you a very poor Hindu. (Hindus believe that everyone is Hindu)
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
anastasia writes: If I believe in only one God then the question is about 'why one God?' and not 'which one?' at all. But the topic would be, "How did you get to one God?" If you get God-or-no-God from your upbringing (mostly), don't you get which-God from your upbringing too? If you go to the Big Pile o' Gods at all, you go there to pick one (or more). If you go there to pick one, does it really matter if you pick one-of-a kind or a matched set?
... because its really not about the god/s in the long run. It's about the what-does-God-dos?. The trappings of a religion are what humans do to appease their gods. It makes little difference if they sacrifice virgins or if they sacrifice wine and wafers. It's for a human need, not a godly one. Buildings are for a human need. Singing hymns is for a human need. Prayer is for a human need. In the long run, religion has little or nothing to do with God at all. So what difference does it make "Which God?" Even less difference how many. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5981 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
Ringo writes: But the topic would be, "How did you get to one God?" If you get God-or-no-God from your upbringing (mostly), don't you get which-God from your upbringing too? If you go to the Big Pile o' Gods at all, you go there to pick one (or more). If you go there to pick one, does it really matter if you pick one-of-a kind or a matched set? Lordie, Ringo! The topic is about why people who pick one God (or one set) rule out the rest. The answers to that still seem to have something to do with wanting One or More Than One. Other folks here are claiming to like more benevelent gods. I am claiming to like One God. I picked that One as the TRUE God so I think others which are multiple versions are 'false'. Still, this is not an accurate portrayal. It's just the best I can do with your Pile O'Gods analogy. No, maybe not. The idea is that this Pile is full of viable God choices. When I pick one the rest are still viable for others. There you have the ol' 'just because I believe it doesn't make it true' thing. My choice doesn't MAKE any other God impotent. It just makes me believe they are, or rather, believe that I was not even picking from a pile of Gods at all. Just a pile of ideas. Some ideas are better than others. So, this still goes back to which are better, and 'more benevolent' or 'oneness' are some of the traits we have to choose from.
The trappings of a religion are what humans do to appease their gods. It makes little difference if they sacrifice virgins or if they sacrifice wine and wafers. It's for a human need, not a godly one. Yeah, yeah, but you follow well in our little analogies, (and these I doubt any one else even gets at times!) and then it goes berzerk. When I talked about trappings I never said 'religion'. I meant the vestiges of God, His accoutrements, His devices. WE may need to pray or sacrifice or this or that. But SOME Gods may like it! If we have the Pile O' Gods again, and I had to pick a God that can talk or a God that can listen, or one that I CAN appease, maybe I would want that one. Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5981 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
nator writes: A Hindu doesn't disparage you for practicing Catholocism.A Hindu would just consider you a very poor Hindu. (Hindus believe that everyone is Hindu) Yes, similar to the idea that we are all born to worship God, and some of us do it better than others?
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nator Member (Idle past 2198 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I'd agree that we are born to worship gods, and some of us get better.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
anastasia writes: Just a pile of ideas.
So, this still goes back to which are better, and 'more benevolent' or 'oneness' are some of the traits we have to choose from. I suspect that the "more benevolent" notion is mostly wishful thinking. The mean Gods have bad PR, but I don't see how they have a lesser claim on reality.
I meant the vestiges of God, His accoutrements, His devices. What do we know about those?
If we have the Pile O' Gods again, and I had to pick a God that can talk or a God that can listen, or one that I CAN appease, maybe I would want that one. So it is about wishful thinking and not reality. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5981 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
nator writes: I'd agree that we are born to worship gods, and some of us get better. Ha ha...maybe I will start a thread. Why Are All Atheists Polytheists?
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5981 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
Ringo writes: So it is about wishful thinking and not reality. I think all beliefs start out or end up being wishes. Doens't mean that none are real, but starts making you question the odds.
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truthlover Member (Idle past 4087 days) Posts: 1548 From: Selmer, TN Joined: |
I've been on a trip, nator, that was a lot of work. I was way too exhausted to be answering complicated theological questions.
Now I'm back, so...
My points are: 1) Drowning innocent animals and children would get your God prosecuted and punished today, so I fail to see why this point is in your favor. In my favor is irrelevant. The original issue was why Greek, Roman, & Norse gods (among others) were rejected. I gave a reason. I think it's a good one. You want to apply it to the God of Israel in the Old Covenant. That's fine, you can, but it's irrelevant.
2) You seem to imply that gods shouldn't be considered gods if they aren't "good" or benevolent, or something. I don't understand at all why you would think that. No doubt. Personally, I think you have a problem with authority. This does not negate your complaint about genocide in OT Israel, but it does address why you don't understand what I'm saying. Yahweh sending a flood to "drown innocent animals and children" would not get him prosecuted today, because he's the authority. All governments (almost) put some people to death. No governments are prosecuted for doing so. A government carrying out an act of war may be morally wrong, but if they win, no one will be able to prosecute the government. The Romans had stories about their gods' lives on earth. Then they believed those men were exalted to be gods. The argument was that it was unreasonable to believe such men would be exalted, because their behavior was criminal. Their behavior, according to the myths, continued to be criminal after they were gods. Perhaps there is some evil deity ruling the universe or many evil deities roaming the universe. To discover some evidence of a malevolent, powerful being and call such a being a god could happen, but the stories of the Romans and Greeks don't add up to something believable, nor, if they were believable, would these be gods you would want to serve.
The OT god is a jealous, venegeful, bloodthirsty god that would be tried for war crimes for his many genocides. Does this mean that, to you, the OT Yahweh is "far from being a god, but is rather a criminal."? This isn't relevant to this thread. From past experience, I know you think that's dodging the question, so let me add that one, I don't think genocide is a good thing, and two, that I don't believe that genocide occurred in the Israelite conquering of Canaan. However, if that needs to be discussed further, it really should be in a different thread. Edited by truthlover, : Added a bit to try to make my post clearer; it was really hard to get across what I wanted to say.
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Rascaduanok Junior Member (Idle past 5296 days) Posts: 21 From: Save Warp Joined: |
tudwell writes: The theist, no matter what religion, accepts the supernatural on some level, where the atheist does not. Atheists can ” and indeed, some do ” accept the supernatural. Not in relation to God, but to entities such as ghosts, spirits, and suchlike. I’ve even conversed (online, mind you) with people who have labelled themselves as ”atheist’, yet believe that angels exist Of course, angels do not necessarily need a divine creator, but I’d still refer to it as an instance of the supernatural. $_=q{$_=q{Q};s/Q/$_/;print};s/Q/$_/;print
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SpecKeta Junior Member (Idle past 6179 days) Posts: 5 Joined: |
Well they must not have believed as strongly as Christians do seeing how those religions were regional and short-lived while Christianity has been a widespread and very longlasting religion (including Judaism as its precursor).
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2521 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Well they must not have believed as strongly as Christians do seeing how those religions were regional and short-lived while Christianity has been a widespread and very longlasting religion (including Judaism as its precursor). Well, it is fairly hard to maintain your religion when an army of Christian missionaries decend upon you killing everyone who disagrees with them. Additionally, are we suggesting that whichever religion has been around the longest is most correct? Or whichever religion has the most followers? Is "truth" that relative?
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Raphael Member (Idle past 490 days) Posts: 173 From: Southern California, United States Joined: |
Christians are not atheists regarding Zeus, Thor, etc because they are not real Gods. They're just made up by the greeks or the norse nations or the romans etc. Whereas the Jewish God, the Christian god, is not made up. Peole had experiances with Him that cannot be looked over.
Why Are We so Simple-Minded? I Know it's Easy to Deny the Truth.............Search Your Heart for What You Believe to be True. Then, Considering Your Morals, Decide if this, in Your Heart of Hearts, is What you Truly Believe.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
People had experiences with Zeus and Thor as well. How are those experiences any different than the tales from Christian or Jewish Folklore? Heracles himself was a son of Zeus and Helen was one of his daughters. How can you overlook such contacts?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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