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Author Topic:   XXXX Science
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10284
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 91 of 96 (388113)
03-04-2007 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Brad McFall
03-04-2007 5:08 PM


Re: ???Genius or Lunatic???
If this is a question about being a genius or crazy then perhaps it should be part of the All About Brad 2 thread in the Coffee house...

It wasn't meant to but the rest of your post does prompt me to reiterate that question again..... So I shall checkout the All About Brad 2 thread in the Coffee house and leave it at that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Brad McFall, posted 03-04-2007 5:08 PM Brad McFall has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Brad McFall, posted 03-04-2007 5:47 PM Straggler has responded

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 3168 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 92 of 96 (388116)
03-04-2007 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Straggler
03-04-2007 5:29 PM


Release answer the question.
Well, are you questioning the logical need vs the use of logical thought itself?

If the former you would need me to scan in the argument of Kant first, which I mentioned in this thread but have not provided, if the latter that is not my problem if you cant answer the question.

DO YOU- Straggler, recognize the difference or not, when a creationist writes, "Evolution by a million years imples this..." and "Creation based on 6,000 years is looking for that..."

YES OR NO-

You do not need to ask the specious question about my personality for YOU to answer that!!!

You are being too cynical even for anti-Americanisms. If you can not devolve into "chat" mode at some point, what is the point or purpose of posting at all?

Edited by Brad McFall, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Straggler, posted 03-04-2007 5:29 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Straggler, posted 03-04-2007 6:22 PM Brad McFall has responded

    
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10284
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 93 of 96 (388121)
03-04-2007 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Brad McFall
03-04-2007 5:47 PM


YES or NO
[qs]DO YOU- Straggler, recognize the difference or not, when a creationist writes, "Evolution by a million years imples this..." and "Creation based on 6,000 years is looking for that..."

YES OR NO-qs

YES. I recognise the difference.

But inferring logical conclusions, whether rightly or wrongly, from a premise is in itself not science.

"Evolution by a million years implies this conclusion and here is the observational/experimental evidence that verifies/refutes said conclusion" would be getting closer (if somewhat simplified) to that which we call science.

In practise creationists treat evolution is wrong = creationism is right so with their predermined conclusions in tow the statements as you define them often get confused.

Well, are you questioning the logical need vs the use of logical thought itself?
If the former you would need me to scan in the argument of Kant first, which I mentioned in this thread but have not provided, if the latter that is not my problem if you cant answer the question

Which is the former and which is the latter. There is only one question?

You do not need to ask the specious question about my personality for YOU to answer that!!!

You seem to be intentionally unintelligible to me. I apologise if that offends you but that is the way it seems to me.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Brad McFall, posted 03-04-2007 5:47 PM Brad McFall has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Brad McFall, posted 03-04-2007 6:38 PM Straggler has responded

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 3168 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 94 of 96 (388122)
03-04-2007 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Straggler
03-04-2007 6:22 PM


Re:back to the future OP
Sorry,
I was getting a little frustrated with you.

I now understand the problem, thanks.

I do not set out to be hard to understand.

Yes there was only one question.

AND yes, inferring logical conclusions from a premise is not in itself science. Yes, I agree.

What you need to see from me is the discussion by Kant applied to anagenesis. I can do this either in this thread or in the one undermy name. It will not happen today. Thank you for answering. As I just answered, I DO know what is missing. Thanks again.

As for the OP...

Does the very need to prefix the word science with a label that indicates predetermined conclusions indicate a complete lack of objectivity and therefore make the "science" in question wholly unscientific?

It might simply indicate "prejudice" as opposed to a lack of objectivity. I can expand on that later.
quote:

Is XXXX Science actually a contradiction in terms?
(where XXXX is any ideology or belief system you care to think of)


It may if I fullfill my answer to your first question. That will come later but given that Mick had you specify a difference of description vs prescription I think that no matter what it will NOT become a "contradiction" in logical terms. The descriptive result for prejudicial prejudgments is different is not the same as prescripting the determination. This assumes the reflexion is finished. It may not be. More later on this as well.

In a very general sense I agree with you sans Mick's post that XXXXScience is predeterminative but then we would need a scientific establishment that really is open to the differing personal horizons and differing lengths of reflective judgment periods. I did not expereicne this. Creationism tends to extend this non-determinative quality.

In the best of all possible worlds I would agree with you. I do not live in such.

Edited by Brad McFall, : subtitle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Straggler, posted 03-04-2007 6:22 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Straggler, posted 03-05-2007 5:22 PM Brad McFall has responded

    
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10284
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 95 of 96 (388330)
03-05-2007 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Brad McFall
03-04-2007 6:38 PM


Re: Re:back to the future OP
What you need to see from me is the discussion by Kant applied to anagenesis. I can do this either in this thread or in the one undermy name. It will not happen today. Thank you for answering. As I just answered, I DO know what is missing. Thanks again.

Whichever thread you deem most suitable is fine. If it does directly relate to this discourse and is posted in another thread then a link to said post here would be perfectly adequate. In either case I will read it and do my best to comprehend it if youmake it know to me.

It may if I fullfill my answer to your first question. That will come later but given that Mick had you specify a difference of description vs prescription I think that no matter what it will NOT become a "contradiction" in logical terms. The descriptive result for prejudicial prejudgments is different is not the same as prescripting the determination. This assumes the reflexion is finished. It may not be. More later on this as well.

Mick's insistence on a differentiation between descriptive and prescriptive was indeed a necessary clarification of the XXXX as defined in the OP.
The contradiction I speak of, I agree, may not be a logical one but more one of the practical application of science vs the idealised view of what science is.

In a very general sense I agree with you sans Mick's post that XXXXScience is predeterminative but then we would need a scientific establishment that really is open to the differing personal horizons and differing lengths of reflective judgment periods. I did not expereicne this. Creationism tends to extend this non-determinative quality.

If by this you mean that established science (i.e. "evolutionary science" in this case) can be equally prescriptive then I would say that whilst short term individual deire and wider established scientific and social momentum can be factors, the history of science shows us that factors such as these are but temporary obstacles to the increased veracity of scientific understanding.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Brad McFall, posted 03-04-2007 6:38 PM Brad McFall has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Brad McFall, posted 05-05-2007 4:59 PM Straggler has not yet responded

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 3168 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 96 of 96 (399445)
05-05-2007 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Straggler
03-05-2007 5:22 PM


Re: Re:back to the future OP
Below is the content I promised to discuss with you.

Click to enlarge

You can ignore the marginal comments. That is what I have to explain to you. Do notice however where on the pic above I labeled two terms (third pic below) within Kant's (Introduction to Logic) lecture. I am working on the "scientific" response. The lecture was published by the Philosophical Library in 1963. I intend the word "form" to remain homogenous in Kant's sense and as used to point towards the shapes of living things.


Click to enlarge


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Straggler, posted 03-05-2007 5:22 PM Straggler has not yet responded

    
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