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Author Topic:   Evangelical Support Group
nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 31 of 331 (398000)
04-28-2007 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
04-28-2007 2:03 AM


Re: Groupthink
quote:
I am saying that logic, by definition (of the critics) is not ever arrived at any other way than through experiments and the scientific method.
That's not an accurate definition of logic, nor an accurate description of the definition "the critics" use to define logic.
Let me know if you want me to correct you.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 04-28-2007 2:03 AM Phat has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 42 of 331 (398310)
04-30-2007 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
04-28-2007 2:03 AM


Re: Groupthink
quote:
I am saying that logic, by definition (of the critics) is not ever arrived at any other way than through experiments and the scientific method.
Actually, logic is not arrived at through experiment nor the scientific method.
Logic is part of the scientific method, not vice versa.
Here is the definition from the wiki:
Logic, from Classical Greek ‘ logos (meaning word, reason or principle), is the study of the principles and criteria of valid inference and demonstration.
As a formal science, logic investigates and classifies the structure of statements and arguments, both through the study of formal systems of inference and through the study of arguments in natural language. The scope of logic is therefore large, ranging from core topics such as the study of fallacies and paradoxes, to specialized analyses of reasoning using probability and to arguments involving causality. Logic is also commonly used today in argumentation theory. [1]
Traditionally, logic is studied as a branch of philosophy, one part of the classical trivium, which consisted of grammar, logic, and rhetoric. Since the mid-nineteenth century formal logic has been studied as the foundation of mathematics. In 1903 Bertrand Russell and Alfred North Whitehead established logic as the cornerstone of mathematics with the publication of Principia Mathematica. The development of formal logic and its implementation in computing machinery is the foundation of computer science.
Put very simply, logic is used to examine the validity of statements.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 49 of 331 (398340)
04-30-2007 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Phat
04-30-2007 10:54 AM


Re: Don't dismantle the belief statement through critical analysis
I have thought that if I had grown up in Spong's congregation, I just might have remained a Christian. Or at least a believer in God.
I greatly admire him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 04-30-2007 10:54 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Phat, posted 10-10-2007 8:49 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 69 of 331 (398424)
04-30-2007 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Phat
04-30-2007 4:20 PM


Re: Listening To Radio Preachers and Teachers
quote:
because I do not think that you, Spong, Hawking, or anyone else has a better understanding of God than I do.
So if everybody has an equal understanding of God, then everybody must be equally right when they make claims about what God likes or dislikes.

This message is a reply to:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


(2)
Message 70 of 331 (398426)
04-30-2007 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by ringo
04-30-2007 4:54 PM


Re: Human attempts to understand God
quote:
Do you think God is so needy that He needs you to need Him?
I want you to want me.
I need you to need me.
Id love you to love me.
Im beggin you to beg me.
I want you to want me.
I need you to need me.
Id love you to love me.
Ill shine up the old brown shoes, put on a brand-new shirt.
Ill get home early from work if you say that you love me.
Didnt i, didnt i, didnt I see you cryin?
Oh, didnt i, didnt i, didnt I see you cryin?
Feelin all alone without a friend, you know you feel like dyin.
Oh, didnt i, didnt i, didnt I see you cryin?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 71 of 331 (398427)
04-30-2007 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Phat
04-30-2007 4:32 PM


Re: Ignorance presupposes perfect knowledge
quote:
One reason that I trust those conservative Bible scholars is because I have personally met a few and can see integrity within them.
You can't "see" someone's integrity.
Integrity is something that is demonstrated over time, and mostly through adversity.
Integrity is doing what you say you will do, even when it isn't easy or convenient.
Don't confuse integrity with charisma or conviction.
quote:
A perfect answer is more appealing to me than an unresolved question.
Maybe my critics see that as part of my problem.
It is human nature to avoid uncertainty, but settling on an answer to a question merely to relieve our emotional discomfort seems a poor way to find truth.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

'Explanations like "God won't be tested by scientific studies" but local yokels can figure it out just by staying aware of what's going on have no rational basis whatsoever.' -Percy
"What we need is not the will to believe but the will to find out." - Bertrand Russell
"Man's greatest asset is the unsettled mind." - Isaac Asimov
"We not only believe what we see, to some extent we see what we believe
...The implications of our beliefs are frightening." - Richard Gregory

This message is a reply to:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 149 of 331 (399163)
05-04-2007 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by Phat
05-03-2007 3:40 AM


Re: Spongs Liberal Theology
Don't know if you think this post of mine is on topic, but I'd like a reply if you think it is, phat, thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Phat, posted 05-03-2007 3:40 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Phat, posted 05-04-2007 11:25 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 152 of 331 (399188)
05-04-2007 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Phat
05-04-2007 11:25 AM


Re: Is the Truth out there or in here?
quote:
Settling on an answer to a question without all the facts is a viable option when the alternative is uncertainty. For you, uncertainty is a challenge since you still have a goal. (Finding the truth)
But we will never find The Truth, Phat.
None of us.
Nobody can really Know.
Without uncertainty, there can be no learning nor growth.
That is because once you are 100% certain of anything, you are no longer open to new and potentially better information.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Phat, posted 05-04-2007 11:25 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 05-04-2007 11:59 AM nator has replied
 Message 168 by Phat, posted 05-06-2007 8:18 AM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 162 of 331 (399301)
05-04-2007 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Phat
05-04-2007 11:59 AM


Re: Is the Truth out there or in here?
quote:
Could it be possible that the truth would or could find us? (or is that a nonsensical response, in your belief?)
How would you know if you had the whole truth?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 05-04-2007 11:59 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 169 of 331 (399598)
05-06-2007 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Fosdick
05-05-2007 11:51 AM


Re: Testosterone”the evil molecule
quote:
Estrogen comes with such soft, moist, receptive possibilities, like a banana split, while testosterone comes with a bloodshot weapon armed for stiff penetration, like a stinkhorn in the shrubbery. It's the classic struggle between good and evil, isn't it? Why do good girls go out with bad boys?
OK, eww.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : CONTENT HIDDEN.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 174 of 331 (399711)
05-07-2007 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by Phat
05-07-2007 1:34 PM


Re: exclusivity versus inclusivity
quote:
It is a bit like voting. can all the candidates be right?
Yes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by Phat, posted 05-07-2007 1:34 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 187 of 331 (427382)
10-11-2007 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Phat
10-10-2007 8:49 AM


Re: More on Spong
I think it is wonderful.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Phat, posted 10-10-2007 8:49 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by Phat, posted 12-13-2007 11:25 PM nator has not replied

  
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