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Author Topic:   The philosophy behind The Twelve Steps
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 9 of 108 (399722)
05-07-2007 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
05-07-2007 12:24 PM


Phat writes:
Anyone who participates in this thread please limit your comments to the philosophy behind each of the twelve steps in relation to recovery from a given addictive process.
Does this mean I can't spout my usual cognitive behavioural perspective on an approach that dictates that one is powerless to affect change?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 05-07-2007 12:24 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 05-07-2007 4:45 PM Larni has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 85 of 108 (496609)
01-29-2009 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Phat
01-28-2009 6:29 PM


Re: Conclusion?
I STILL believe that the 12 step process can work, but I don't believe that it is the only way to go, nor can it work without ones cooperation. I have concluded two basic things:
People have to want to change.
Awareness happens slowly. It may take years to uncover the events of our past that we either don't understand, have purposefully hidden from ourselves, or never remembered.
I partially concur.
I take issue with the final sentance, however. You do not always (and in my experience; often) have to go digging in the past to solve ones problems.
My favourite example is the habit of smoking. We don't have to know why we started smoking, but we need to konw what is going on now to make any changes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 01-28-2009 6:29 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 01-29-2009 10:06 AM Larni has not replied
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 08-12-2011 1:11 PM Larni has replied
 Message 91 by Phat, posted 09-09-2013 3:48 AM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 90 of 108 (628755)
08-12-2011 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Phat
08-12-2011 1:11 PM


Re: Cognitive Dissonance
From my perspective you would be using gambling to modify your emotional state.
It is not gambling (or any habit, for that matter) per se that is the problem; it is how the behaviour manipulates how you feel.
I get a massive buzz when I buy something: it's not the thing I buy that I want more tan the buzz I get when I buy something.
We find it hard to quit because we value that micro second of buzz.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 08-12-2011 1:11 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 93 of 108 (706341)
09-09-2013 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Phat
09-09-2013 3:48 AM


Re: Patrick Carnes
I've not heard of him till now but he seems pretty in line with my take on addiction.
Behaviour causes emotion modulation.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Phat, posted 09-09-2013 3:48 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Phat, posted 09-10-2013 2:18 AM Larni has not replied
 Message 99 by Phat, posted 10-22-2016 1:14 PM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 100 of 108 (793170)
10-22-2016 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Phat
10-22-2016 1:14 PM


Re: Day 97
I would say so. You can literally build up your will power and any time you show restraint it generalises to restraint in other areas.
Also having a routine that does not involve engaging in addictive behaviour reduces the frequency we ruminate on engaging in addictive behaviour.
It sounds like you are doing really well!
All the best, mate.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Phat, posted 10-22-2016 1:14 PM Phat has not replied

  
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